Phone app

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Busman
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Phone app

Post by Busman »

Personal view,
I think any politician that refuses to download the virus tracking app should be blocked from re election. Barnaby, people like you are so selfish you do not deserve taxpayer money. Same same Andrew Wilkie.

My reasons,

Firstly, this is not about you, it is about the rest of the population, stop being a selfish pig.

Second, more that enough assurance has been given about the privacy concerns, it won't track you, you idiot, it ain't interested where you are, it is only interested in what phones you have been close to in case you or them prove to be infected. If you are with the mistress I guess you could turn your phone off for a bit. You listening Barnaby ?

Thirdly, it has been made abundantly clear that after this all disappears the app can be deleted and the database disappear

Fourth, with the ongoing way that whistle blowers come out of the woodwork, can you really think the gov could get away with keeping this going on the sly ? If you answer yes, just look at the four corners type programs, any whisper of such a thing would see them stop at nothing to find out the truth.

Fifth, the speed that we can get back to normal could be ramped up massively if everyone had this app on their phone.

Sixth, if it was on everyone's phone we could open the borders much earlier, if guests coming here were tested and forced to download the app while they were here. That would help our economy way faster and more safely than any other method.

For the above reasons I believe it should be mandatory to have this app on your device to help this country get back to normal asap.
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native pepper
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Re: Phone app

Post by native pepper »

My personal view on this next invasion of privacy is, there is no need for it all and it won't speed up anything other than data collection and more control for governments. We are seeing the very heavy handedness of the police in some states, draconian restrictions and even invasions of privacy by police hell, bent on revenue raising and suppression of the people. They have not released the full code of this intrusive app and even those that tested it say they didn't have access to all its features. Trusting any government that is not directly controlled by the people themselves, is corrupt by definition and application and never to be trusted. All governments are controlled by corporate and ideological vested interests, the people have no say, not even in elections.

The reason I see it as not speeding up things is because it's an after reaction, not a before reaction. What's the use of recording peoples activities after the event, that does nothing but give more control to authorities. All governments were loath to introduce restrictions because it interfered with their profit growth mantra and badly effects their vested interests. They allowed contaminated cruise ships to unload, then freely transit the country and did nothing to restrict anyone until it was to late. If they had the people and future in mind, we wouldn't have any of these rapidly growing disaster providing scenarios.

How do you make something mandatory when the user is in control of their equipment. I and know many others who don't turn on data on their phones, so have no access to GPS or the internet. The reason for that is privacy, when your phone is connected to the internet, they know exactly where you are and what you are doing. One of my phones ia about 16 years old, the other probably well over 5 years old, neither have every been connected to the internet. But when you have that part turned off, they don't have a clue other than when your phone logs into a tower, There are also many who turn their phones off when travelling, so it can't be tracked and if you're really smart you'd use a ph system like Ubuntu touch, which is a linux phone system and there is no way they can track that, or know where you are as it can send false identifications to towers, but still log on.

You lose nothing if your phone is turned off when travelling, as soon as you switch it on at you final destination, any missed calls and txt are there to be seen. I don't carry my ph with me outside home or the vehicle I'm using, so they don't have a clue where I am or what I do. If you have your phone with you turned on, they can track you anywhere. That's why they are catching more crims, they as so stupid, they carry and leave their phones and data turned on, so leave an easily led trail.

If the fools had closed Aus off instantly the virus was known to be spreading back in January and quarantined all returning Aussies for at least 4 weeks, there would be no problems. But they failed, just like they fail in everything they do and at the peoples and futures expense, now they want to corral everyone so they know where they are and what they are doing. Sounds very much like 1984 to me but on a bigger scale.

I use my ph for calls and txts, nothing else. Have a laptop for the internet and use extremely private systems that can't be hacked, tracked or interfered with. That's real freedom of communication and admit have 2 phones, one for private use and one for band use, neither is connected to the internet.

So why should I or anyone be forced to download an intrusive app and have my phones connected to the internet, when I don't want them to be connected at all.
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Busman
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Re: Phone app

Post by Busman »

Thanks for ignoring all my points NP. It is clear you have a particular view of our government and obvious you have much more experience in dealing with pandemics than them so perhaps you can step up and take over ?
Thought not.
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native pepper
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Re: Phone app

Post by native pepper »

Busman wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:00 pm Thanks for ignoring all my points NP. It is clear you have a particular view of our government and obvious you have much more experience in dealing with pandemics than them so perhaps you can step up and take over ?
Thought not.
I have a particular view on many things in life, just as everyone else has. But don't go round trying to insult, attack or make self righteous interpretations of what others say.

My post was not directed at your post, it was directed at the thread subject and your points are just your opinion and nothing else. Accusing me of not stepping up to take over, is frankly infantile and completely unnecessary to promote decent comment and debate.

To answer why I'm not stepping up, simply a complete waste of time as nothing can be done to stop the total collapse of world societies. One look at the science shows there is no hope and it will all be over within this decade, nature can only take so much abuse before collapsing completely and it passed that point back in 2004. Now it's just a matter of attrition until the balance is restored and the surveillance app will just make life uncomfortable for everyone. What hackers could do with something like that, is unlimited and open ended.
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Busman
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Re: Phone app

Post by Busman »

Surely the same applies to your points then NP, just your unsubstantiated opinion ?
I would have thought the way to answer a posters points would have to been to try to demolish their argument, with some sort of credible evidence, point by point ?
Instead we get a cut your wrists rave about the state of the country, indeed the world.
All collapsed by the end of the decade ? Bit like the sea levels that are at exactly the same at Tim's wharf eh ? Seems we have come full circle.
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Shirley
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Re: Phone app

Post by Shirley »

Anyone who has internet data & have it turned on makes the phone traceable without downloading the said App doesn't it?

Many times missing people have been found by tracing their phones whereabouts.

Guess everyone will have their own opinion on the App & I can't see how it could be made compulsory to carry your phone with the App tracking your every move.
Shirley & Bruce.
native pepper
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Re: Phone app

Post by native pepper »

Busman wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:55 pm Surely the same applies to your points then NP, just your unsubstantiated opinion ?
I would have thought the way to answer a posters points would have to been to try to demolish their argument, with some sort of credible evidence, point by point ?
Instead we get a cut your wrists rave about the state of the country, indeed the world.
All collapsed by the end of the decade ? Bit like the sea levels that are at exactly the same at Tim's wharf eh ? Seems we have come full circle.
Have already stated, was not addressing your points, so your claims irrelevant. As for society collapsing within the decade, one can only go by the known and revealed science, as well as the known state of nature biodiversity foot chains and ecology. You are welcome to cut your wrists, I'm all for freedom of choice.

Didn't address you points because you're to hostile towards those that disagree with you and hostility, is not worth dealing with. Good debate is rational, calm and enjoyable. Accusations, attacks and attempts at belittlement, don't make for good or informative debate and nothing can be learnt from that childish approach.

When someone posts something I disagree with or don't understand, I do my research so I'm informed and can make a logical and hopefully rational reply. Simply denouncing someone or dismissing what they say because you don't have the knowledge or understanding of something, makes no sense.

If you want a debate and to learn, whether the knowledge is right or wrong, then you need to calm down, relax and open your mind to all the possibilities of the future under the known science and viewable reality. Do some open ended research, then produce a calm rational response. Everyone has a different view on the world and life, it's only control freaks, psychopaths and paranoid ideological clones, that demand they are right when all the evidence shows the opposite. No one is right, other than evolution. There is but one constant in the universe and that's change, we either evolve with those never ending changes, or we get relegated to the past. That's why I listen to everyone, look at the science and viewable reality, them am able to respond, or not. That's why up till this virus thing, I rarely posted. Sadly won't respond to any more of your posts if they are going to be so hostile to wards me and what I say. Disagree by all means, to bloody boring otherwise but please be rational and logical, I'm bored enough as it is.
native pepper
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Re: Phone app

Post by native pepper »

Shirley wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:01 pm Anyone who has internet data & have it turned on makes the phone traceable without downloading the said App doesn't it?

Many times missing people have been found by tracing their phones whereabouts.

Guess everyone will have their own opinion on the App & I can't see how it could be made compulsory to carry your phone with the App tracking your every move.
Shirley, like all technology there is good and bad with phones today. You have the world in your hand, that's pretty snazzy when you look back to the 1950's and off course let's not forget party lines, what a wonder. Phones today are wonderful in the reporting of crime, incidents and tracking to save or capture people and other life forms. They are pretty cool if you want to conduct your life that way. music movies, access to everything on the planet including friends and family.

Then there is the other side, they are intrusive, most provide the corporate world with everything you do and all your personal information, which is used, misused and abused without your permission. This app would be not different to all politicians do, say one thing then do another. An app that can say where you are all the time and show what you are dong and saying, including distances from others. Can easily be used to track peoples movements, gatherings, meetings, every moment of your life and use that as a form of control.

They are trying to move everyone onto their phones for identification, get rid of real money and then have full control over peoples lives. This app would be a way of saying we wont start using face recognition camera's, when they already have. This app will give them much more than that, it's a tracking and control device and nothing else.

Being an oldie now, can always claim senility or dementia for not carrying my phone or having it switched off. Plus how do I explain my ph hasn't been updated since the day I bought it over 5 years ago and no apps. :roll: ;)
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Busman
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Re: Phone app

Post by Busman »

Shirley,
For me it comes down to, as restrictions are loosened, without eradication, wanting to know if I have inadvertently been with someone who has later tested positive. I don't want my kids or friends to visit and get this disease from me, when it may have been possible to be alerted. There is no doubt that there will be cases occurring when restrictions are lifted so any quicker tracing seems to me to be a good thing.

In spite of lots of bile directed at our current federal and state leaders this country is in an enviable position in relation to this disease. If we were in the same position as the USA today, on a per capita basis we would have 216 DEATHS today alone, instead of 2 or 3.

As to the tracing paranoia here is an example. I did not surrender my gun licence when we sold the farm over 2 years ago. The .22 was left secured on the farm. We used to live in a property close to the farm. In spite of buying another property in Stanthorpe and having services like data and copper phone connected the cops could not find us. It seems it took 2 years for weapons licencing to somehow work out that I had sold the farm and asked the cops to get me to surrender the weapon. The only way we found this out was my daughter was driving past and saw the cops going through the rubbish bin. She asked them what was going on, then the story all came out. They admitted they had no idea where we were ! And we weren't even trying to hide. So as far as the gov knowing every breath you take, from my experience that is bullshit.

When you next go to the bowling club, would you rather find out one of the members is infected quickly or maybe lots later.

Yes this is an after application, unfortunately I don't know anyone that can see into the future yet. Do you ?
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Cuppa
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Re: Phone app

Post by Cuppa »

I could never be considered a supporter of this government, there is not a snowballs chance in hell that I would ever vote for them, I do not trust them.

BUT

On this issue of the 'Tracing app' (note - not Tracking app) I am 100% behind what Busman wrote in his OP, & I will add a point he forgot. The app in question will utilise 'open source' code, meaning that anyone who understands such things will be able to thoroughly vet it for any hidden nasties that the distrusting mob , including myself, can check. Well I can't 'cos all that stuff is way over my head, but I am happy that there will be plenty of others who can & will, confident that if there was anything of concern re our privacy the public would be made aware.

NP.... I think in many respects you & I may think/feel similarly about many things, based upon what I have read of yours recently, but when you wrote "The reason I see it as not speeding up things is because it's an after reaction, not a before reaction. What's the use of recording peoples activities after the event, that does nothing but give more control to authorities" I think you may have misunderstood what the tracer app is intended to do.

If we put the 'giving more control to authorities' to one side for a moment (a concern I don't share for the reasons others & myself have made comment on) the Tracer app aims to do two things, to speed up the process of contact tracing & to make the contact tracing more accurate. Nothing more nothing less.

Currently if I were diagnosed with the virus, contract tracing would rely on my memory as to who I had been close to over the past 14/21 days. Chances are I may be feeling 'shellshocked' by the diagnosis, & worried as to how it may pan out for me. My memory is not fantastic at the best of times, but likely to be far worse when under that sort of pressure. Add to that that when , for example, I have been shopping, I have no idea of who the people around me in the supermarket were, so the contact tracer person hits a brick wall both with my poor memory recall & my lack of knowledge. The 'recollection' of the phone can be far quicker - no long interviews, following up & further subsequent interviews to clarify info (all taking time whilst potentially others are swanning around infected without knowing, & infecting others), just a single download taking a matter seconds & contacting those with the app you have been close to to say "You should get tested". So a much faster process by orders of magnitude in a situation where speed is imperative in preventing a rapid escalation of community infection.

To be honest I would feel I had been totally irresponsible if I were infected & had not used the app. I would also like as early as possible notification of having been potentially infected from others so I could get tested, & not swan around feeling ok but infecting others.
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