Political Parties In Australia

[Grandad]

This was mentioned in the Trump thread and I felt it might be worthy of more in depth comversation.

Our party system is in breach of the constitution, so are our elections,

The idea that political parties are not allowed under our constitution came up in conversation some years ago. The notion intrigued me so I did some reading. (Of the actual constitution)

Turns out, political parties are just not mentioned in the constitution. They are neither banned, nor allowed. Just no mention at all.
In fact, most of the systems currently in place in Canberra are not mentioned either. It seems many started as more or less adopting traditions from the British parliament of the time.

This aforementioned conversation was the result of a debate on what might happen in Australia if all political parties were abolished. Each MP effectively an independant.

I'd be interested in hearing other's views on that suggestion.

I was then, and still am, of the opinion that abolishing them might be worth a shot.

Jim

[Grandad]

An addendum from Parliament house website.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... al_parties

Although political parties were not recognised by the Constitution until 1977,[35] their existence has since Federation, and more particularly since 1910, dominated the operation of the House of Representatives.

Jim

[T1 Terry]

Well, political parties consisting of one member would at least meet the Covid gatherings requirement, maybe a party of 5 members max in parliament at any one time, one term coalition max term between parties so no combined party tickets campaigning for re-election ...... something that should be banned now really.

If every member was an independent, rule via a committee would result and we all know how that works, they just vote and elect another group of members to form another committee so the first committee can't be held directly responsible. The second committee breaks the task up into multiple separate committees so no single committee is answerable to any decision it recommends and eventually either nothing gets done or it has taken so long that no matter what is done the problem can't be solved without another assortment of committees ......
There needs to be a party in control and a party doing the checks and balances to keep everyone as close to honest as a politician can be, all things done at high levels is a favour for a favour stuff to get the members support etc.

Terry Pratchet had the right idea in the Disc World series of books, a benevolent dictator that organised all groups into unions, assassins, thieves, clowns, ladies of negotiable affection who preferred to be known as the Seamstress Union, you name it, they each have their own union and are responsible for policing non union action as well as any action taken by a union member and all answerable to the dictator who doesn't take any shitte at all

T1 Terry

T1 Terry

[Grandad]

Well Terry, I didn't see committees entering into it.

Let's just take a couple of examples.
There are 151 seats in the lower house in Canberra.
First course of business after an election is to choose a prime minister.

I see a scenario where all members could nominate and second any number of choices. All people nominating someone must address parliament and explain his or her reasons why they believe that is a good choice. This could take the whole day, or more.

Immediately following there is a secret ballot vote to see who has the most support. Depending on how many nominees there are, the bottom 1, 2 or even 3 nominees are eliminated and another ballot held. Repeat the process until only two nominees are left. The winner of that ballot is the PM.

He chooses two members for each of the ministers areas. Health education etc. Another ballot on each one is held and we have our new ministers.

At any time, as we have now, any MP can move for a vote of no confidence on any minister including the PM. If the majority of the house agree, we start again.

If any member wishes to put forward a bill, he approaches the relevant minister and nuts it out with him (or her). If there are no serious issues raised by the minister that member needs to address, that member goes away and prepares the bill and presents it to Parliament for debate and then voting. Exactly as is done now.

I don't see where a committee would enter the picture.

Jim

[native pepper]

My coment was that the party system and how they organise voting is unconstitutional, the constitution states elected members must be elected by direct vote. Not indirect vote as the party system uses to stay in power, preferential voting is an indirect vote and unconstitutional, which makes them all invalid.

As for politcal parties, in this day and age, there is no need for them, we have the internet and can easily set up secure forums for discussing policy then voting. All we need to do is elect those with proper experience in portfolios to impliment the peoples wishes and instantly sack them if they fail or do something different. It would wipe out corruption, nepotism and economic abuse by government members and departments. It would provide real open government, stop corporate and vested interest lobbying and save us billions a years.

It's a simple easily workable solution that would put the power into the hands of the people and all it would need is to be set up so those who are effected by desicions would have a real say and not corrupt political parties.

Of course we would have to elect a party that would undertake the job of reorganising the entire system to get rid of the parties. We could also do that with the justice system, now there is no justice, just how much money you have and the only winners are the lawyers. It's the legal fraternity that writes the laws, carries out prosecutions, defence, appeals and all we get is a legal technical outcome that increases the profits of the legal fraternity, not justice

[Noggins]

If you read a few articles from this post
https://truth-now.net/
you will see that the Constitution is no longer valid as Australia is registered in Washington USA as a Business Entity,
All done on the quiet . like the stealing of the tax paid pensions.


Ron

[Grandad]

My coment was that the party system and how they organise voting is unconstitutional, the constitution states elected members must be elected by direct vote. Not indirect vote as the party system uses to stay in power, preferential voting is an indirect vote and unconstitutional, which makes them all invalid.

Fair comment. I admit I thought you were referring to parties themselves.
However, preferential voting has been shown for eons as being the most accurate way of gauging the peoples true wants or desires.
Imagine a scenario where there are 3 people standing for election to a post that is very important to you and yours.
One guy is your favourite. You think he's the best man for the job.
Another guy is so-so. He may be ok but the other fellow is way better.
The third person is a complete no-hoper.

You vote for your choice.
He may or may not get the position.

But, in preferential voting if your choice gets knocked out of the running you now have another chance to make sure at least the complete no-hoper doesn't get elected.

What I think you're referring to are the deals and finnigalling that goes on behind the scenes of who will get who's preferences. On that matter we are in agreement. But the elimination of parties would also eliminate that.
In the interim, all that is needed to do is eliminate the how-to-vote cards. As you walk into the polling booth and receive a card that states who represents which party. Nothing more. Just who they would like you to give your number 1 to. You fill out the rest yourself. THAT'S how it should be.

Of course we would have to elect a party that would undertake the job of reorganising the entire system to get rid of the parties.

And, I'm not holding my breath. This, and other conversations are purely to exercise our minds and keep the brain working.

Jim

[Grandad]

Depressing isn't it?
I knew there were Parties in Fed & State but the other day I heard someone talking about Labor is in control of Melb City Council.
Once local council was just elected members of the community. Best man/woman got elected etc.

I agree Bruce and it gets worse. the CEO of our local public hospital was recently dismissed for a number of shady things going on. It was reasonably well known he considered the position as a stepping stone to politics. His aim was Health Minister at the state level. The hospital position was just a means to get into the public eye.

Politics even getting into our non-political sections of our community?
Give me a break.

Jim

[native pepper]

Jim, I understand what you are saying and preferential voting may have worked for a few short years, but the party system abuses it to their advantage. How to vote cards should be banned, the lazy cloned voter just follows the card of their party choice and never investigate the bonfides or veracity of the candidates, this is just one of the big problems with our governance system.

Not sure, but think it was in Tas that there was a bill introduced to ban political parties from being involved in local government, but all the parties combined to stop it and that just shows where their agenda's lay, full control over society. What really bugs me is these parties make out they represent the people, yet they have a membership for the entire country that would struggle to reach 10000 of all the parties combined. They stay in power because of the millions given to them by the corporate world, other vested interests and nothing else.

This is the 21st century and we need something vastly different to the current corrupt system, if as a species we are to survive. However it won't happen, the majority can only think of today and never the real tomorrow, so we will see world societies collapsing even faster as our deluded delusions and fantasy land existence, crumbles under the weight of the true reality of the world.

Our country is not far behind the USA and others in chaos, corruption, racism, elitism and sociological collapse. This is a war we can't win by the usual methods of guns and suppression, we have no weapons to deal with nature beyond cope with it and nature is determined to delete the deranged life form destroying it, humans. Its easy to see why this is happening and the underlying causes behind it, but no one takes any notice which makes us all part of the problem and locks in the outcome in just a few short years, if that.

[T1 Terry]

Council elections are where the grass roots of that particular party branch practice their political muscle. Been that was for as long as councils and elections have been around. You do realise that a number prime ministers climbed the political ranks from local government https://alga.asn.au/facts-and-figures/
You might recognise this name:

Campbell Newman AO

38th Premier of Queensland
Elections: 2012, 2015

Leader of the Liberal National Party

15th Lord Mayor of Brisbane
Elections: 2004, 2008

Political party
Liberal National Party of Queensland

Other political
affiliations
Liberal Party (2004–2008)

Campbell Kevin Thomas Newman AO (born 12 August 1963) is a former Australian politician who served as the 38th Premier of Queensland from 26 March 2012 to 14 February 2015. Newman served as the Member for Ashgrove in the Legislative Assembly of Queensland between March 2012 and 31 January 2015. He was the Leader of the Liberal National Party (LNP) from 2 April 2011 to 7 February 2015, and was the 15th Lord Mayor of Brisbane from 27 March 2004 to 3 April 2011.

Newman was elected lord mayor as a member of the Liberal Party. He became a member of the LNP following the July 2008 merger of the Queensland Liberals and The Nationals.[2]

T1 Terry