Seems a lot don't agree with you, less than 24 hours after release and nudging 2 mill downloads. Guess for most trading off any "maybe" security concerns to get back to normal asap.
When you compare, on a per capita basis, the death rate here and in other places, well I guess you can understand why we are the envy of the health world. That is a fact.
Phone app
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Busman
- Posts: 1217
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:09 pm
- Location: Stanthorpe QLD
- Contact:
Re: Phone app
Vanishing Point, almost ready to vanish
Suzuki GV more than ready to go NOW !
Suzuki GV more than ready to go NOW !
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BernieQ2
- Posts: 7159
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:57 pm
Re: Phone app
Just means there are a lot of scared people out there..
I'm not one of them .
Bernie
I'm not one of them .
Bernie
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Cuppa
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 3:41 pm
Re: Phone app
Terry, like all of us you are entitled to choose whether to download the app or not.
That said I believe you are wrong in your reasoning.
The primary aim is to speed up the process of tracing to help more quickly & thus effectively to prevent the spread. Any means of monitoring community transfer rate would be secondary.
Australia card? Don't think so. All the safeguards are in place to ensure that the user makes decisions about whether the data collected is used, data on the users phone auto deletes after 21 days, & laws are in place to see all data held in the cloud deleted when the pandemic is over.
The data asked for in the App is 1. your name - Pseudonyms are acceptable. 2 Age range - not age - ie. mine was in the 60 to 70 age group. 3. Your phone number. Pretty sure that was it! Hardly a big deal even if it did somehow get hacked.
Have a read of the following from a woman who is a IT security tech.
COVIDsafe is out. Download it. Here’s why:
1. Yes, RoboDebt and other government clusterf#%& don’t give us much confidence re: government IT competence and information handling. Look, the public service is not amazing at IT. But think about it: the government was also incentivised to be awful around RoboDebt - they get money from it. Moreover, RoboDebt was caused by poor execution, which startup/tech experts cautioned against AT THE TIME. It scaled too quickly, in startup terms. Bugs and assumptions hadn’t been fixed before rollout. That is a lesson that can be learned from.
2. The majority of privacy and data security experts have vetted how this app was developed and how information is stored, and agreed risk is negligible.
3. Please know this: security is NEVER total. Your privacy is NEVER total. This has ALWAYS been true. When our files were stored in filing cabinets, our information could be stolen, lost, misidentified.
To be quite frank, security online is a battleground involving a different - but not worse - set of security issues to filing cabinets stored in (under best case, unlikely circumstances) government bunkers.
Information security experts (‘white hat hackers’) fight teams of ‘black hat hackers’ (now often mobilising AI powered bots to efficiently find systemic vulnerabilities), and the war, rest assured, is constant. Terrifying? Only because you don’t understand it. You see, white hat hackers are very often recruited from black hat hackers. They fight and learn tactics.
And guess what? The majority of security vulnerabilities do not come from a nefarious albino faced team of foreign hackers. It comes from you and me.
We fail to recognise a con when it targets us, so we give away our information through dodgy texts pretending to be banks or government entities, we play silly social media games to find our porn star names (and give away our passwords and security questions), we participate in facial aging games (and inadvertently disclose details via FB, etc).
You see, by using FB, you signed on to massive information disclosure. By using LinkedIn. By using ANY social media platform. You are already freely disclosing vastly more personal information on a scale this app will never rival.
Trust me. I literally wrote the book on social media and law. I read all the social media policies. It was boring, and I did it, and yes, we gave away far more just by being here than some minor app.
4. Are there no risks posed by COVIDsafe? Of course not. Nothing is without risk. Filling out a paper form isn’t without risk. But look to purpose: the point of this app is to assist contact-tracing. It basically means, we love our phones so we keep them with us. And we want to walk around and shop in stores without hurtling through aisles because a potentially asymptomatic stranger walked near us.
This app helps with detective work if someone who walked near us gets sick in a few weeks. It alerts us and contains contagion. It allows people to go back to work who can’t WFH.
This is the purpose.
5. What’s the best thing you can do? Download the damn app. Lives and livelihoods depends on it.
Will the app be glitchy? Yes. It’s an MVP. I mean, it’s bloody amazing the government threw it together so quickly.
But what is the app actually disclosing? Your location, if you enabled Bluetooth or brought your phone out. That is the highly limited purpose.
There’s plenty to be paranoid about in the time of COVID.
But you know what helps paranoia? Learning. Research. Experts. We’ve done so well listening to health experts. Listen to privacy and tech experts.
And yes, I’m only a marginal expert. I was Amazon Web Services Alliance Lead for a global software company; I worked alongside security teams responsible for securing legal software, which needs to meet incredibly high security standards.
But if you want to hear from a better expert, listen to Nick Abrahams, Global Head of Tech and Innovation at Norton Rose Fulbright (below).
Not Adam Bandt. I love the Greens and I frequently vote Greens, but I must respectfully disagree with his inadvertent fear-mongering. Yes, he’s right to call for transparency and disclosure. But the way he calls for it fuels uninformed paranoia around online security which is disappointing from an MP, but understandable because hey, we’re all stressed from a global pandemic.
Here’s the expert, Nick Abrahams, from his LinkedIn post of 5 hours ago:
“I have downloaded gov’s Tracing App, #COVIDSafe & you should too. I got some ugly blowback on LI last week after saying I was OK to download App if it had privacy safeguards. It is now released & has the safeguards
I am a tech & privacy lawyer. 4 wks ago I wouldn’t have been pro-App but health/economic toll of COVID means I have had to change my mind
I have read all gov docs about App released today & am comfortable to download App as
1. It will help the fight. Note Aus Medical Assn & Aus Nurses Fed support App
2. Amt of data collected is tiny & of little importance
3. Security protections v. good
4. No one (gov, police or other) is able to use my data for anything other than COVID tracing or they go to jail
If u are thinking u are not going to download App, pls read up & u will understand how insignificant the things are that u are giving up by downloading App, especially in light of the benefits of App to society. Read info on App site &/or join my webinar 1 May 10.30am “Facts of the Tracing App”. All welcome
I learnt from recent LI discussions that soc media amplifies extreme views but muffles proper analysis. Therefore I will not answer any comments on LI but will answer all LI comments (or any questions u DM) in webinar
Download App & help all Australians
That said I believe you are wrong in your reasoning.
The primary aim is to speed up the process of tracing to help more quickly & thus effectively to prevent the spread. Any means of monitoring community transfer rate would be secondary.
Australia card? Don't think so. All the safeguards are in place to ensure that the user makes decisions about whether the data collected is used, data on the users phone auto deletes after 21 days, & laws are in place to see all data held in the cloud deleted when the pandemic is over.
The data asked for in the App is 1. your name - Pseudonyms are acceptable. 2 Age range - not age - ie. mine was in the 60 to 70 age group. 3. Your phone number. Pretty sure that was it! Hardly a big deal even if it did somehow get hacked.
Have a read of the following from a woman who is a IT security tech.
COVIDsafe is out. Download it. Here’s why:
1. Yes, RoboDebt and other government clusterf#%& don’t give us much confidence re: government IT competence and information handling. Look, the public service is not amazing at IT. But think about it: the government was also incentivised to be awful around RoboDebt - they get money from it. Moreover, RoboDebt was caused by poor execution, which startup/tech experts cautioned against AT THE TIME. It scaled too quickly, in startup terms. Bugs and assumptions hadn’t been fixed before rollout. That is a lesson that can be learned from.
2. The majority of privacy and data security experts have vetted how this app was developed and how information is stored, and agreed risk is negligible.
3. Please know this: security is NEVER total. Your privacy is NEVER total. This has ALWAYS been true. When our files were stored in filing cabinets, our information could be stolen, lost, misidentified.
To be quite frank, security online is a battleground involving a different - but not worse - set of security issues to filing cabinets stored in (under best case, unlikely circumstances) government bunkers.
Information security experts (‘white hat hackers’) fight teams of ‘black hat hackers’ (now often mobilising AI powered bots to efficiently find systemic vulnerabilities), and the war, rest assured, is constant. Terrifying? Only because you don’t understand it. You see, white hat hackers are very often recruited from black hat hackers. They fight and learn tactics.
And guess what? The majority of security vulnerabilities do not come from a nefarious albino faced team of foreign hackers. It comes from you and me.
We fail to recognise a con when it targets us, so we give away our information through dodgy texts pretending to be banks or government entities, we play silly social media games to find our porn star names (and give away our passwords and security questions), we participate in facial aging games (and inadvertently disclose details via FB, etc).
You see, by using FB, you signed on to massive information disclosure. By using LinkedIn. By using ANY social media platform. You are already freely disclosing vastly more personal information on a scale this app will never rival.
Trust me. I literally wrote the book on social media and law. I read all the social media policies. It was boring, and I did it, and yes, we gave away far more just by being here than some minor app.
4. Are there no risks posed by COVIDsafe? Of course not. Nothing is without risk. Filling out a paper form isn’t without risk. But look to purpose: the point of this app is to assist contact-tracing. It basically means, we love our phones so we keep them with us. And we want to walk around and shop in stores without hurtling through aisles because a potentially asymptomatic stranger walked near us.
This app helps with detective work if someone who walked near us gets sick in a few weeks. It alerts us and contains contagion. It allows people to go back to work who can’t WFH.
This is the purpose.
5. What’s the best thing you can do? Download the damn app. Lives and livelihoods depends on it.
Will the app be glitchy? Yes. It’s an MVP. I mean, it’s bloody amazing the government threw it together so quickly.
But what is the app actually disclosing? Your location, if you enabled Bluetooth or brought your phone out. That is the highly limited purpose.
There’s plenty to be paranoid about in the time of COVID.
But you know what helps paranoia? Learning. Research. Experts. We’ve done so well listening to health experts. Listen to privacy and tech experts.
And yes, I’m only a marginal expert. I was Amazon Web Services Alliance Lead for a global software company; I worked alongside security teams responsible for securing legal software, which needs to meet incredibly high security standards.
But if you want to hear from a better expert, listen to Nick Abrahams, Global Head of Tech and Innovation at Norton Rose Fulbright (below).
Not Adam Bandt. I love the Greens and I frequently vote Greens, but I must respectfully disagree with his inadvertent fear-mongering. Yes, he’s right to call for transparency and disclosure. But the way he calls for it fuels uninformed paranoia around online security which is disappointing from an MP, but understandable because hey, we’re all stressed from a global pandemic.
Here’s the expert, Nick Abrahams, from his LinkedIn post of 5 hours ago:
“I have downloaded gov’s Tracing App, #COVIDSafe & you should too. I got some ugly blowback on LI last week after saying I was OK to download App if it had privacy safeguards. It is now released & has the safeguards
I am a tech & privacy lawyer. 4 wks ago I wouldn’t have been pro-App but health/economic toll of COVID means I have had to change my mind
I have read all gov docs about App released today & am comfortable to download App as
1. It will help the fight. Note Aus Medical Assn & Aus Nurses Fed support App
2. Amt of data collected is tiny & of little importance
3. Security protections v. good
4. No one (gov, police or other) is able to use my data for anything other than COVID tracing or they go to jail
If u are thinking u are not going to download App, pls read up & u will understand how insignificant the things are that u are giving up by downloading App, especially in light of the benefits of App to society. Read info on App site &/or join my webinar 1 May 10.30am “Facts of the Tracing App”. All welcome
I learnt from recent LI discussions that soc media amplifies extreme views but muffles proper analysis. Therefore I will not answer any comments on LI but will answer all LI comments (or any questions u DM) in webinar
Download App & help all Australians
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BernieQ2
- Posts: 7159
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:57 pm
Re: Phone app
Another post to Long for me to read Ian.
I don't trust the government on the app.
To me same as the Australia card .
And I grow a full beard for the licence photo..then off it comes .
Bernie.
I don't trust the government on the app.
To me same as the Australia card .
And I grow a full beard for the licence photo..then off it comes .
Bernie.
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Noggins
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:03 am
- Location: Mandurah - Greenfields
Re: Phone app
Went to download the app today.
I was going to put the phone on the counter where I volunteer, as we're all retired there we certainly don't want to take too many risks as we're all in the vulnerable ages.
( One of us is 86 and has emphysema so we are certainly taking care of contact with the public. )
But it says the phone number I've had for 20 odd years is invalid, so I deleted the app and will wait for the programmers to get it right.
MMCC - Mandurah Muscaters Charity Computers + Covid 19 update.
As a lot of parents are homeschooling we've run a bit low on stock and suitable computers.
Some of the volunteers are taking the computers home and loading etc them there, much better than being "Public "
We're doing a lot of donations - 1 per family- through the side door and by previous phone contact, some times just sitting around, sometimes asking them to enter 1 at a time.
Some are doing it hard, and I mean HARD, No job, no money, 3(+?) kids with no escape from a depressing situation, so we try to brighten their day a little and just donate to them.
Peter Mac gave away his Easter egg to a little girl who's family just couldn't justify an Easter egg when there was almost no food on the table.
Sometimes the smile is a reward enough for us
Ron
I was going to put the phone on the counter where I volunteer, as we're all retired there we certainly don't want to take too many risks as we're all in the vulnerable ages.
( One of us is 86 and has emphysema so we are certainly taking care of contact with the public. )
But it says the phone number I've had for 20 odd years is invalid, so I deleted the app and will wait for the programmers to get it right.
MMCC - Mandurah Muscaters Charity Computers + Covid 19 update.
As a lot of parents are homeschooling we've run a bit low on stock and suitable computers.
Some of the volunteers are taking the computers home and loading etc them there, much better than being "Public "
We're doing a lot of donations - 1 per family- through the side door and by previous phone contact, some times just sitting around, sometimes asking them to enter 1 at a time.
Some are doing it hard, and I mean HARD, No job, no money, 3(+?) kids with no escape from a depressing situation, so we try to brighten their day a little and just donate to them.
Peter Mac gave away his Easter egg to a little girl who's family just couldn't justify an Easter egg when there was almost no food on the table.
Sometimes the smile is a reward enough for us
Ron
Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power.
Ignorance is Liberating
You're not restricted by facts or knowledge.
You're a Free Person and, as such, able to form your own conclusions.
Ignorance is Liberating
You're not restricted by facts or knowledge.
You're a Free Person and, as such, able to form your own conclusions.
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Noggins
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:03 am
- Location: Mandurah - Greenfields
Re: Phone app
Do you carry your MediBank card?
The substitute for Australia Card ,
Sneaky aren't they.
Ron
Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power.
Ignorance is Liberating
You're not restricted by facts or knowledge.
You're a Free Person and, as such, able to form your own conclusions.
Ignorance is Liberating
You're not restricted by facts or knowledge.
You're a Free Person and, as such, able to form your own conclusions.
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BernieQ2
- Posts: 7159
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:57 pm
Re: Phone app
No photo on Medibank card .
That was the objection in the beginning .
Bernie .
That was the objection in the beginning .
Bernie .
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Dot
- Posts: 23560
- Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:12 pm
- Location: Strathalbyn SA
Re: Phone app
wow what's to worry about? who killed JFK amongst us? anyone got anything so bad to hide?, I don't get the "privacy" thing people are paranoid about, an example might help me to understand more. 
Queen of the Banal & OT chatter and proud of it. If it offends you then tough titty titty bang bang.
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BernieQ2
- Posts: 7159
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 7:57 pm
Re: Phone app
Be like me looking in your bedroom window Dot , you wouldn't like that...I feel the same about anything government... specially as they lie more than me .
I don't trust them so I don't give up my right to say NO .
Bernie .
I don't trust them so I don't give up my right to say NO .
Bernie .
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native pepper
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:21 am
- Location: Tasmania
Re: Phone app
They do use Ph data to track criminals, that's how they arrest them so quick now. All they have to do is open up all the cell towers and find the phones in the area at the time, they hunt them down via their movements and catch the perpetrators. When you add the majority are so stupid they upload their videos and conversations to facebook etc and leave a lovely trail to follow, it's really big brother now, if you have your ph data and location turned on. If you use bluetooth and have your data turned on they can know every move you make, who and where you pass by, because Bluetooth logs your location and other bluetooth contacts.T1 Terry wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:00 pm Of course the next question is, why don't they simply use the tracking facilities the telcos have now to trace criminals and criminal elements to find their associates and round the whole lot up ..... who says they don't?
Are we all paranoid, or did a lot of us read "1984" and realise just how close it could be to reality right now, just without the warnings about "Big Brother is watching" .......
T1 Terry
Was speaking to some of our gun club members yesterday, one is very right wing and he downloaded the app straight away. It told him he had the virus and within a few hours his phone went flat because the app drained it. Then it cut off his ph conversation telling him he was near a contaminated person, which it's not supposed to do and there was no one near him. Then he got an advert from amazon who he has never dealt with for face masks and gloves, so he deleted it.