check these out

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BACAMICK

check these out

Post by BACAMICK »

could be quit interesting for those that run/want to run a a/cond of ya batery

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SOLAR-AIR-CO ... 2423wt_960
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T1 Terry
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Re: check these out

Post by T1 Terry »

Looks interesting, buggered if I know how getting the as even hotter makes it more efficient unless it uses the 3way refrigeration principle.
A person may fail many times, they only become a failure when they blame someone else John Burrows
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BACAMICK

Re: check these out

Post by BACAMICK »

unsure TERRY , give it a day or 2 and u should be explaining it to us all ;)
BACAMICK

Re: check these out

Post by BACAMICK »

BACAMICK wrote:unsure TERRY , give it a day or 2 and u should be explaining it to us all ;)
well thats wat i hope :)
TigerMK1

Re: check these out

Post by TigerMK1 »

From an engineer on the Whirlpool Forum:
Were you able to decipher this statement in the brochure?
"It uses the solar heat from the sun to superheat the refrigerant which enables the refrigerant to begin changing state at the top 2/3rd’s of the condenser coil. By using this method it reduces the superheat of the compression required to achieve the cooling process in the conventional cooling system as well as utilizing more of the condenser cooling face to the coil. The conventional air conditioning system is only able to change a portion of the gas into a liquid state so as when the refrigerant enters into the system it is a saturated vapor. The Solar Air Conditioning process allows more of the refrigerant to change state back into liquid faster as well as allowing the transformation of more liquid into the system."

It is not only the grammar that doesn't make sense. They appear to have thrown a few words from a description of how a refrigeration system works into a hat and drawn them out at random. Their 'schematic' diagram of the 'working principal' of the system is even worse.

Adding heat into a vapour compression refrigeration system anywhere other than the evaporator can have no benefit and will decrease efficiency, not improve it.

Their energy saving comparison between a 'conventional' air conditioning unit and the hybrid unit is based on a conventional unit which has energy consumption 60% higher than the MEPS regulations and this is at intermediate frequency (part load??). Very clever??

I could go on but........
Also refer to my post here: /forum-replies.cfm?t=1772858&r=31014454#r31014454
If there is an engineer in the building
I'm a mech engineer specialising in building HVAC and have both theoretical and practical refrigeration knowledge.
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Re: check these out

Post by T1 Terry »

Busy as a one legged arse kicker in an arse kicking contest at the moment, might have to wait a week if one of the other clever members hasn't answered it before then :lol:
Wel, there ya go, Steven has found an answer already, it doesn't work according to that bit.
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BobnBev
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Re: check these out

Post by BobnBev »

T1 Terry wrote:Looks interesting, buggered if I know how getting the as even hotter makes it more efficient unless it uses the 3way refrigeration principle.
Hi Terry, Had a little look and it seems that the condenssor is fan forced useing solar panel power in the day light ?? could be wrong. The panel didnt look big enought to run anything eles....
R410 is high pressure and not used with heat like 3 ways...
Bob...

Tigermk1, Just read your page, Thats what it looks like, BS. the higher the head pressure the less boil off you get in the vap. BUT cool the condenssor to remove heat and wala away you go..
Thats how its aways worked..Well I think it dose.
Bob...
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Re: check these out

Post by T1 Terry »

My understanding of heat pumps is limited, I believe the whole principle works on the fact that change of state from gas to liquid requires the removal of heat and change of state from liquid to gas requires the addition of heat. The greater the difference in temperature between the medium being heated or cooled compared to the air temp being passed through the condenser or evaporator the more efficient it works. The higher the pressure, the more a vapour will try to form a liquid, so the heat must be expelled, the lower the pressure the more readily a liquid will change state to a vapour so heat must be added.
Putting this limited knowledge to the possible method trying to be achieved here, could it be that the compressor only pressurises the gas to a lower pressure and the solar heat exchanger increases that pressure. Then the ratio of vapour heat in the condenser compared to temp of the air being passed through the condenser would be higher, creating a greater efficiency in heat transfer at the condenser. The higher pressure in the condenser would force the gas vapour to change state to a liquid more readily before the DX valve, then at the evaporator, the standard change of state would occur because the compressor has created a low pressure on the evaporator side of the DX valve. Even though the liquid entering the evaporator is at a higher temp, the temp drop across the DX valve would still be significant, plenty for the purpose of air cooling and de moisturising. Maybe not efficient for refrigeration as the temp drop would not be enough to create freezing temps but efficient enough to lower the air temp to below the dew point, thus removing the moisture. A lot more air circulation through the evaporator would be needed as the temp drop would be less, but that would still lead to dryer air, one on the main aims of a god air conditioning system.
A higher pressure system without the added cost in energy use try to running an over sized compressor very hard.
If my theories and adaptation are correct, it might just work. No guarantees I have any of this correct though :lol:
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Re: check these out

Post by Noggins »

The whole principle is explained very well in this link
http://www.australiansunenergy.com.au/s ... oning.html

Can't see any reason why it isn't a viable system that with a bit of advancement, as always happens, it won't
take the place of the conventional systems we use these days.

After all a simple explanation of an airconditioning :- take a compressor ( known as a heat pump in this instance ) that compresses a gas that can be cooled to a liquid easily via a condensing ( gas to liquid by cooling the gas ) unit , pipe it to another coil that has an automatic restricting valve ( known as a TX valve) that sprays the liquid into the coil ( evaporator) as the liquid is sprayed into the coil and expands into a gas it draws the surrounding heat from the air passing over the coil ( or not as in a refrigerator cold plate ) just like air from the nozzle of an air line always is cooler than the air around it.

Then cycle the now gas back to the compressor to do the whole thing again and again.

It gets a lot more complicated than this with the modern A/C systems but the basic principal is the same.

By putting a Solar Panel after the compressor to raise the temp of the gas , consequently more pressure for liquidisation at the condenser the lower the capacity needed for the compressor and subsequent power required.

Ron
Retired Auto Airconditioning Engineer ( Heavy Vehicles )
amongst a few other Quals and experiences. :idea:
Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power.

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Noggins
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Re: check these out

Post by Noggins »

The whole principle is explained very well in this link
http://www.australiansunenergy.com.au/s ... oning.html

Can't see any reason why it isn't a viable system that with a bit of advancement, as always happens, it won't
take the place of the conventional systems we use these days.

After all a simple explanation of an airconditioning :- take a compressor ( known as a heat pump in this instance ) that compresses a gas that can be cooled to a liquid easily via a condensing ( gas to liquid by cooling the gas ) unit , pipe it to another coil that has an automatic restricting valve ( known as a TX valve) that sprays the liquid into the coil ( evaporator) as the liquid is sprayed into the coil and expands into a gas it draws the surrounding heat from the air passing over the coil ( or not as in a refrigerator cold plate ) just like air from the nozzle of an air line always is cooler than the air around it.

Then cycle the now gas back to the compressor to do the whole thing again and again.

It gets a lot more complicated than this with the modern A/C systems but the basic principal is the same.

By putting a Solar Panel after the compressor to raise the temp of the gas , consequently more pressure for liquidisation at the condenser the lower the capacity needed for the compressor and subsequent power required.

Ron
Retired Auto Airconditioning Engineer ( Heavy Vehicles )
amongst a few other Quals and experiences. :idea:
Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power.

Ignorance is Liberating
You're not restricted by facts or knowledge.
You're a Free Person and, as such, able to form your own conclusions.

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