battery advancement

[native pepper]

We may be about to see another revolution in batteries, have mentioned before about the potential for graphene as an energy storage system and now it looks like they will be coming on the market very soon. A quick search on the net comes up with lots of examples of this technology about to come on line and you find there are already lithium graphene based batteries available.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/do ... arge-news/

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 04451.html

There

You would think out government and business would be jumping on the bandwagon of energy storage with our large reserves of lithium and the fact one of our universities in Queensland I think, have been able to produce graphene from vegetable oils without heating.

We were going to order more lifepo4 cells in the next few months, but will hold off and see what eventuates with the graphene storage, there may be the possibility of building vehicles, which have graphene bodies that hold the energy. This would be a massive saving in many ways, as graphene is 6 times stronger than steel, extremely light and they say can be charged much quicker than lithium.

[bagmaker]

I dont see much of an advantage over LIFEPO4 tech for us motorhomers.....
The ability to accept charge quicker is not relevant (and hardly relevant for any user except mobile phones, tablets, etc -which is significant, dont get me wrong-just not for motorhomes or even EV use) and I dont see any great reference to improved safety, better capacity for size and or weight.
Am I missing something Pepper?

[native pepper]

You'd have to read a few articles first to fully understand the concept I'd think, I've read different pdfs etc on them and they sound really good, especially as they claim they will be able to integrate them into vehicle shells. Whether that ever eventuates is another thing, but developing lighter smaller cells is always a bonus. May be able to take of the metal body panels on the bus and replace them with graphene, giving a huge weight and strength advantage, would be a nice thing to do, especially if you could integrate solar cells into the panels. They not only charge faster, much lighter and smaller with extra capacity. Won't be changing my lifepo4, but will look at expansion in my systems and weight saving in mobile situations is always a bonus.

The articles below give a much better picture, with the promise of longer safer lives. Just love new technology, even though I don't have a clue about the technicalities involved. Just love my 120ah portable lifepo4 pack which has served me extremely well over more than 10 years. But to be able to have more power, less weight safely, is always something I look forward to. Will get one of them as soon as possible to see how it goes compared to lifepo4.

As it is, except for vehicle starter batteries, all my stored energy for everything is lifepo4. It makes for an easier life as i do a lot of camera and video stuff, lifpeo4 has made that much easier and no need to worry about them going flat whilst filming etc. Nothing like going on a big hike, taking heaps of photo's and then running out of power when you still want to shoot, as with nic cad etc. Lifepo4 means can film all day and still have power left.

These new ones, if they happen, which can't see any reason why not after what I've read, will make life even more interesting and easier. Being able to carry a battery in your pocket and use it for lights etc on over night walks, makes a lot of sense. Although we may need a porter to carry all our electrical gear for us.

Dendrite free lithium batteries and li-sulphur cells, is a huge bonus for longevity and safety. Understand most won't be interested in this, but some who are looking to get lithium down the track, may well be. Of course price will be a big thing, but graphene is so cheap to produce now, it should drop prices pretty rapidly and amazon is already claiming to sell them

https://phys.org/news/2016-03-safe-lith ... phene.html

https://cleantechnica.com/2014/12/29/gr ... batteries/

https://phys.org/news/2018-01-dendrite- ... ttery.html

https://www.graphene-info.com/graphene-batteries

https://www.azonano.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=4326

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac ... ev.7b00115

[native pepper]

Just thought I'd add a bit more, been doing a bit more research and it seems graphene will really revolutionise our energy storage and usability. It has an advantage over everything else with storage capacity, charge times and lightness. The one thing it lacks, so far like lithium and prehistoric LA batteries, is charge acceptance rates and extremely fast charge rate acceptance is required for regenerative braking, the energy produced when you apply the brakes on your vehicle is really high. But current technologies can't handle the rate, it's almost like trying to harness a lighting bolt before it strikes it's grounding point and store the energy. So they batteries only accept a fraction of the energy produced. They also have charge cycles in the tens of thousands, unlike standard super capacitors, which break down over a short time.

Now they have a solution, high-performance supercapacitors made out of graphene and can store almost as much energy as a lithium-ion battery. They can charge and discharge in seconds and maintain all this over many tens of thousands of charging cycles. The problem with standard capacitors, is they can't store much energy, but they claim if graphene can. This could means when you it the brakes, you will instantly charge the capacitors, which will then feed it to the li-sulphur-graphene cells.

They can charge and discharge at "20 watts per cm3", 20 times faster than standard activated carbon capacitors and "three orders of magnitude higher", compared to a high-power lithium-ion battery. It is such a simple process, you can make them with a DVD burner they say. The next year or so should be interesting if they come on the market, li-ion has not even got established yet and it may become redundant in a couple of years.

Graphene products may be the way for us to fix the planet a bit and replace high energy polluting materials. It's made from seed oils, is a simple low energy process and is the strongest material we know of. Then again, we may run into as yet unforeseen problems with it. We may be able to by a few thin sheets, put them under a dvd burner and bingo batteries. Sounds to good to be true and probably is, but interesting and a definite possibility in the very near future.

Maybe T1 will convert a DVD to a battery maker and make to size batteries to go with his new system for controlling li-sulphur-graphene, or sell personal battery makers and we can all make them on the road and make a fortune.

[Vik351]

""Maybe T1 will convert a DVD to a battery maker and make to size batteries to go with his new system for controlling li-sulphur-graphene, or sell personal battery makers and we can all make them on the road and make a fortune ""

Hope he is readin this...!!!

Aint got my bank a batts yet...!!!

vik... proto...

[T1 Terry]

From what the folk who know about this stuff cause they work with it all the time, graphene will not add any improvements to the current lithium battery manufacture. The type of graphite used these days is very electrically conductive yet Graphene on its own is a very poor electrical conductor, so it has to be impregnated with the carbon exactly the same as the methods used now so there is no gain to be had.
Graphene comes into its own as a strength material to replace carbon fibre, but according to these same people as yet there is not large sheets manufactured so all results are simply spun up multiples of tiny lab test batteries.
I doubt this is the direction battery manufacture will go, my guess is it will be more commonly found materials to get the price down.

T1 Terry

[native pepper]

G'day Terry, you may be very wrong in your conclusions, there seems many ways to make large graphene sheets and you can make graphene with some graphite powder, kitchen blender and dish washing liquid. In fact it seem you can make graphene from many different processes, many simple to understand and apply. The video bellow is one example of how to make large sheets of graphene, true it is a proof of concept video, but the results speak for themselves and you can already buy sheets of graphene to wok with, although not that big as yet.

https://graphene-supermarket.com/Conduc ... heets.html

The video mentions a method to join sheets together and after looking at it, it seems this material will revolutionise not only batteries, but our way of life and manufacturing. Especially when yo consider this experiment was done with normal aluminium foil from a shop. One notable thing mentioned in it, which most people may not know, is the foil you use for your cooking, is covered in a plastic film to make it shine. Not a very good thing to be ingesting in your diet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXAnvuqeWVc


This video is about the conduciveness of graphene and explains itself. The number of videos and information, seems to suggest you are very wrong in your assumptions. I'm one who wants to see improvements in all aspects of life, in this case,m manufacturing, energy storage and transport. Which means even though don't really understand the science or technology, I'm all for it's development and they are already claiming it will revolutionise energy storage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxldXsYfE0A

http://graphene-battery.net/graphene.htm

[bagmaker]

I never considered the input of brake recovery power, that battery would need some REALLY high rates of charge.very interesting.

[BruceS]

Be no good to me on the river in a houseboat!!

[pet-els]

WHAT!
You took me on a ride up the river with no brakes

PeterH