This renewables madness

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T1 Terry
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by T1 Terry »

Busman wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:56 pm T!, what a load of rubbish !
All sides agree it is not a good look, going to a clean energy thingy in multiple jets when one would do. There are plenty of long enough runways nearby to take a commercial jet like one from the air force, to say that all ministers cannot function without an extra hanger on is ludicrous !

As for the 700 ??? Km of a prestige car range, we all know that is the figure around town when regen braking captures back energy. It seems the commonly accepted figure if you head out on the highway as the saying goes is that the range drops by about 30%, so I guess even the premium cars would have had to have a fuel stop !
Best to research the subject rather than believing the crap the fossil fuel industry spits out, modern EV's have a 1000km range and over now if driven economically, even using the "30% loss" figure (no idea where that came from) 30% of a 1000 is still 700 km .......
As for the jets, they went by RAAF advice and I guess, or at least hope, they know what they are talking about ... so I'd trust their advice over a news hound looking for the next headline, or an opposition party looking to score political points .....

The "load of rubbish" is back in your court Bill ;) :lol:

T1 Terry
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by Greynomad »

Re: Snowy 2.0:
I have a micro "Pumped Hydro" system in our back yard — a fountain with an upper bowl flowing into a larger lower bowl.

When I run it we have water loss through aerosol action as well as evaporation. It requires a daily top-up of about 5~8 litres.

If I don't run it I still have water loss due to evaporation, even though the top bowl is dry. Needs about 3.5~4 litres/day.
Total water capacity is around 25~30 litres.

Multiply that by a factor of a bazillion to Snowy 2.0-size and I forsee some major drawbacks which snowmelt won't make up for. :roll:

This, of course, ignores the 12 month pause in construction — probably the first of who knows how many — when the tunnel-borer got bogged underground. Who did the geological survey? Mickey Mouse?
Completion date will probably be the day before the Second Coming…

Re Electric cars:
Our nearest recharging station is 45km away, which automatically cuts effective range by 90km. "The Shire of Beechworth" (it might be named Indigo Shire, but that's where the money goes!) just spend millions upgrading quite adequate and pleasant facilities at their Lake Sambell park & caravan park.
Rutherglen can't even get signposts to redirect semi-trailers and B-Doubles out of our horse-&-buggy-width Main Street! I doubt this week's pedestrian fatality will make any difference. We don't even have a pedestrian crossing! We have a point with fences to funnel pedestrians across… and signs saying "Pedestrians must give way to cars." :!: :!: :!:

I can't see Rutherglen making it onto the list of towns for EV charging stations before the next round of election promises.
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Ray
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T1 Terry
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by T1 Terry »

Greynomad wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:22 pm Re: Snowy 2.0:
I have a micro "Pumped Hydro" system in our back yard — a fountain with an upper bowl flowing into a larger lower bowl.

When I run it we have water loss through aerosol action as well as evaporation. It requires a daily top-up of about 5~8 litres.

If I don't run it I still have water loss due to evaporation, even though the top bowl is dry. Needs about 3.5~4 litres/day.
Total water capacity is around 25~30 litres.

Multiply that by a factor of a bazillion to Snowy 2.0-size and I forsee some major drawbacks which snowmelt won't make up for. :roll:

This, of course, ignores the 12 month pause in construction — probably the first of who knows how many — when the tunnel-borer got bogged underground. Who did the geological survey? Mickey Mouse?
Completion date will probably be the day before the Second Coming…

Re Electric cars:
Our nearest recharging station is 45km away, which automatically cuts effective range by 90km. "The Shire of Beechworth" (it might be named Indigo Shire, but that's where the money goes!) just spend millions upgrading quite adequate and pleasant facilities at their Lake Sambell park & caravan park.
Rutherglen can't even get signposts to redirect semi-trailers and B-Doubles out of our horse-&-buggy-width Main Street! I doubt this week's pedestrian fatality will make any difference. We don't even have a pedestrian crossing! We have a point with fences to funnel pedestrians across… and signs saying "Pedestrians must give way to cars." :!: :!: :!:

I can't see Rutherglen m aking it onto the list of towns for EV charging stations before the next round of election promises.
Why couldn't you recharge at home Ray, 10amp plug would take 16 hrs if you arrived home completely empty .... you wouldn't do that in a petrol car, but you could in an EV and have a full battery ready to drive up to 450km if it wassay an MG4 or ionq or Polstar similar size EV.
But you could charge for only 8 hrs from empty and 225km, or 4hr and drive 112 ..... and that is if you pulled beside the power point with no charge left in the battery.

If you drove to Melbourne as an example, you could fast charge from completely empty in 20 minutes from a DC fast charger if you were in A rush, but any charging option all the way to the 10 amp power point for 16 hrs .... the slower you recharge, the cheaper it is ....or free from rooftop solar .... can't do that in a petrol car

T1 Terry
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by Noggins »

As an observer of this post I can see 2 sides that will not agree with any points the other side make.
Yes EVs will be the way of the future in the long term, but at present they belong in the era of the first T model Ford.
Much further research and development will be needed until a battery system , or equivalent, is developed that does not produce more pollution than it is supposed to remove.

As for recharging on the way, be prepared for the ones that park at the charging station and get all it can deliver while the line up behind try to run their heaters/entertainment systems on a slowly discharging battery.
The best spare accessory for an EV, as I see it at present, is a 3Kw generator, for when out and not near a charging station.
And as a lot of the more away from local power supplied are using a Diesel Generator it would be minimising the present system into a personal type system.
As for whether I can refill a depleted IC fuel tank at home, well being a "fore thinker, I'd use the fuel from the 20Ltr drum I keep just for that purpose.


Ron
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by Keith Morris »

Noggins wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:34 am As an observer of this post I can see 2 sides that will not agree with any points the other side make.
Yes EVs will be the way of the future in the long term, but at present they belong in the era of the first T model Ford.
Much further research and development will be needed until a battery system , or equivalent, is developed that does not produce more pollution than it is supposed to remove.

As for recharging on the way, be prepared for the ones that park at the charging station and get all it can deliver while the line up behind try to run their heaters/entertainment systems on a slowly discharging battery.
The best spare accessory for an EV, as I see it at present, is a 3Kw generator, for when out and not near a charging station.
And as a lot of the more away from local power supplied are using a Diesel Generator it would be minimising the present system into a personal type system.
As for whether I can refill a depleted IC fuel tank at home, well being a "fore thinker, I'd use the fuel from the 20Ltr drum I keep just for that purpose.
"tanks" here---Ron,
I expect that you may upset a few with that post.
Keith.

Ron
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I plan to have another birthday next year.
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by Dot »

What the!.jpg
:lol: :roll:
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by Noggins »

Keith Morris wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 2:43 pm
Noggins wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:34 am As an observer of this post I can see 2 sides that will not agree with any points the other side make.
Yes EVs will be the way of the future in the long term, but at present they belong in the era of the first T model Ford.
Much further research and development will be needed until a battery system , or equivalent, is developed that does not produce more pollution than it is supposed to remove.

As for recharging on the way, be prepared for the ones that park at the charging station and get all it can deliver while the line up behind try to run their heaters/entertainment systems on a slowly discharging battery.
The best spare accessory for an EV, as I see it at present, is a 3Kw generator, for when out and not near a charging station.
And as a lot of the more away from local power supplied are using a Diesel Generator it would be minimising the present system into a personal type system.
As for whether I can refill a depleted IC fuel tank at home, well being a "fore thinker, I'd use the fuel from the 20Ltr drum I keep just for that purpose.
"tanks" here---Ron,
I expect that you may upset a few with that post.
Keith.


Ron
This site sometimes reminds me of my youth living in Melbourne
I used to go to the dance Satd'y Night above the Flinders Street Railway Station ( VRI )
I'd go into the city early, get a hamburger or fish'nchips and stroll along the Yarra Bank listening to the "soapbox speakers"
I didn't heckle them, just listened, and evaluated what they were preaching with the small amount of knowledge I had at that age.
Some were worth a listen and some, to me, were full of it.
Some I did take notice of and some I dismissed outright.
So when I read some posts from the EV/Li Evangelists here I take the same cynical attitude, then try to make it fit into my known lines of thought.
Like when we had solar put on the house, why couldn't I make a portable battery pack that I could disconnect from the house and plug and clip into place on the van and use the solar that was already on the van ?
Then there would only be ONE purchase of Li batteries and be able to do 2 purposes........................ NAHH can't be done ?????????

Ron
Also this might be a good read
https://www.ecoticias.com/en/water-engi ... -time/674/
Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power.

Ignorance is Liberating
You're not restricted by facts or knowledge.
You're a Free Person and, as such, able to form your own conclusions.
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supersparky
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by supersparky »

Tanks did you ever go to Hosies pub, on the corner of Elizabeth St, opposite the VRI, on a Friday night. You could get into a fair bit of bother there, without trying real hard. Never went to the Insitute dances though.
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David

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native pepper
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by native pepper »

Noggins wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 6:59 pm Like when we had solar put on the house, why couldn't I make a portable battery pack that I could disconnect from the house and plug and clip into place on the van and use the solar that was already on the van ?
Then there would only be ONE purchase of Li batteries and be able to do 2 purposes........................ NAHH can't be done ?????????

Ron
Also this might be a good read
https://www.ecoticias.com/en/water-engi ... -time/674/
I'm now using the lifepo4 batteries out of my bus on the house, since covid the bus has only been used a couple of times. In the process of making up a trolley that will carry big battery packs around here to give me more power in the workshop and in the house if needed. Was a pain getting it out and used to carry all on the tractor to move it to the workshop, have started to build a trolley to move it around and tow with the small tractor. However since the VTX came along, been drooling over that and bringing it back to a decent condition, as well as learning heaps about it. Downloaded all the manuals for it, but the 2008 model which was the last, is quite different to earlier models. But am enjoying working on it and have made a couple of modifications to improve handling and comfort.

The problems with the move to EV's is there's absolutely no planning by governments, just ad hoc stupidity and agree with pumped hydro. You'd need the entire system enclosed to stop evaporation and that's a big undertaking, pumped hydro from the sea would be a better solution as evaporation would just go back to the sea from where ever it drops as rain.

Personally with the current approach and reach of the fossil fuel industries through the millions they donate to political parties and the billions in subsidies they receive, can't see any solution coming forward in the next decade at least.

There's also another problem with current EV development, it's become a closed shop, ev's rely upon the internet to function and can only be maintained through the manufacturer. Same with all machinery and modern vehicles, manufactures control their goods after they are sold, no different to microsoft and apple, you're at the whim and control of corporations and that adds to the expense of them and unreliability. Whilst manufacturing EV's without all the modern crap and internet connectivity would reduce costs considerably and develop small business which could provide service anywhere. Now if your EV stops, no reliable internet and you're not within a few klms of a service center, which are very few if any, then you're stuffed. Ev manufacturers are also moving to online sales, rather then dealerships, cutting back even more on the ability to get service. No different to taking out spare tyres, pretty insane in my opinion.

If you we looked at the situation as an observer, you'd find we are headed down a dead end street with the Ev revolution. Read in the past couple of days of farmers complaining about the huge number of wind farms being pushed onto them and the number of transmission lines and infrastructure they have to allow on their properties including transmission towers, which will collapse under the growing trend of climate change to create destructive weather patterns and we are already seeing the start of. Who knows how destructive these systems will become, as each one seems more destructive than the previous event and it's large population areas which seem to cop the worst.

It would be much simpler cheaper and more sustainable to put solar on every building with batteries, small grids and centralised battery backups, maybe some off shore wind farms to drive industry and or seawater pumped hydro towers and weighted generation towers. Then we may not have as many growing problems we are currently seeing develop. Seems the problems are growing and the fixes are dismissed or ignored, doesn't look good for the future of our young sadly.
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Re: This renewables madness

Post by supersparky »

We recently toured part of Japan. I was surprised to see a number of vertical solar farms on the south sides of a number of the taller buildings. Once away from the bigger towns there are small solar farms all over the place. Have no idea, how or if they stored that energy.
Cheers
David

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