This renewables madness

[Busman]

Don't believe small localised grids will ever work, to do so you would have to start from scratch. Not much space on a skyscraper for solar panels is there ? And when you have nothing but like in the middle of a city ? Nope, won't work, still the need for a grid. And what about energy hungry industries that are not in the right place for such a grid setup ? Nope, won't work still the need for a grid.

We have to work with what we have or you are setting the stage for energy discrimination, thats is not fair to anyone.

We have both Hyundai and DAS panels in our 2 systems, with home built Lith battery for the house. Here in Qld the gov is giving away up to $4K of our money for people to buy a battery, but has to be by a major manufacturer like LG. I note that there is a nationwide recall for LG batteries as they are burning peoples houses down !!!!!!!

Just another part of the rush to this renewables madnes.

[T1 Terry]

T1,
The Newcastle Uni research is amazing.
Replacing the gold conductors with carbon-based ink sounds like another way to de-carbonise some of our waste as well.
However, in the Guardian article they mention efficiencies of around 11%.
Is that solar-to-electricity or the number of panels that actually work?
Seems to me that either way that efficiency needs to be up around 75% to be financially feasible.
Imagine printing a coating which would make the entire roof of your RV or home into a power plant!!
The mind boggles.

11% efficiency per sq mtr, compared to the Tindo 21% and the world best lab sample at 25%, the facts are unknown such as:
if this would stand up to mass production

if this is one of those double sided panels that stand on their ends or require a reflective base https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/28/ ... in-winter/ This opens up the possibilities with vertical rows that could catch the reflected light from the row behind, or rows of panels to turn to face the sun and the panel next in line catches the reflection, arrays mounted above the water to catch the reflection from the water surface .......lots of possibilities

So, at the current 11%, twice as much area would be required, still better than the early rooftop solar efficiency, but the fact they are cheap to produce and easy to install means areas that were not suitable for solar installation would be now in play, all the roof surfaces, sheds, the bonnet, roof and boot lid of a vehicle or the entire roof area of an RV.

The CSIRO continuous sheet idea opens up the possibilities of multiple layer to catch the light passing through the open sections, the solar voltaic industry is ever evolving and ever improving, so nothing is beyond reality in the future, not long ago if you suggested you could make electricity with a panel facing the sun they would have said you were crazy and it wouldn't happen in their life time ......

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

Don't believe small localised grids will ever work, to do so you would have to start from scratch. Not much space on a skyscraper for solar panels is there ? And when you have nothing but like in the middle of a city ? Nope, won't work, still the need for a grid. And what about energy hungry industries that are not in the right place for such a grid setup ? Nope, won't work still the need for a grid.

We have to work with what we have or you are setting the stage for energy discrimination, thats is not fair to anyone.

We have both Hyundai and DAS panels in our 2 systems, with home built Lith battery for the house. Here in Qld the gov is giving away up to $4K of our money for people to buy a battery, but has to be by a major manufacturer like LG. I note that there is a nationwide recall for LG batteries as they are burning peoples houses down !!!!!!!

Just another part of the rush to this renewables madnes.

Wow, an area I hadn't even considered, the windows in a skyscraper with layers of printed solar acting as light and heat control rather than reflecting film over the windows.

Energy discrimination, like all the places that rely on diesel generators because the grid doesn't go there, or houses where the cost of poles and wires make connecting to the grid more expensive than building an off grid system, now that is energy discrimination, we already have it Bill, we need to work towards a system that won't be turned off because of the high fire danger (so they don't get blamed for the poles and wires causing the fire) or because they need to ration the energy to those they deem more needy of the available power.

As far as the insanity in the house battery feeding back to the grid saga, totally agree Bill, madness, over seen by a money hungry govt dept set up by a govt that believed the $$ was everything, having no actual testing involved in the products they endorse, just a money trail that can be followed. They were the "authority" that demanded switches be mounted at the end of each solar array, yet never tested to see if the "approved" switches could stand up to DC current at those voltages, resulting in hundreds of rooftop solar fires .... yet, not one of them got dragged before a parliamentary inquiry for a "please explain" or faced criminal neglect prosecution ......

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

Evilbay and the likes are flooded with really cheap panels that have been removed from houses and businesses and replaced with new one because the system was "upgraded" because it didn't perform anything like the sales pitch said it would .... and cashed up clever people took the installers to task over it through the courts .....

T1 Terry

On gumtree recently there were 20 x 250w solar panels on sale asking $200 for the lot, claiming they are from an upgrade. Tindo are the best value for money and you're not dealing with creeps on the other side of the planet. Don't think we can have enough solar panels on the planet, the more we have on peoples homes the quicker power prices will drop, especially if we get over night batteries and use them as much as we can. Time to get rid of the ridiculous electricity grid and start building small local grids with centralised battery backup.

The discarded panels from an "upgrade" is a mix of the "Clean energy council" banning members from using second hand panels and the greed of the solar installer who wants the "energy rebates" from the new panels when they are installed and the future "carbon credits" value on the open market

T1 Terry

[native pepper]

Don't believe small localised grids will ever work, to do so you would have to start from scratch. Not much space on a skyscraper for solar panels is there ? And when you have nothing but like in the middle of a city ? Nope, won't work, still the need for a grid. And what about energy hungry industries that are not in the right place for such a grid setup ? Nope, won't work still the need for a grid.

We have to work with what we have or you are setting the stage for energy discrimination, thats is not fair to anyone.

We have both Hyundai and DAS panels in our 2 systems, with home built Lith battery for the house. Here in Qld the gov is giving away up to $4K of our money for people to buy a battery, but has to be by a major manufacturer like LG. I note that there is a nationwide recall for LG batteries as they are burning peoples houses down !!!!!!!

Just another part of the rush to this renewables madnes.

Actually they are already establishing micro grids in rural and outer suburbs, they are not only feasible but logical and couldn't care less about cities as they are the major problem for power consumption and pollution. With the rate climate change is evolving, cities may become death traps and if sea levels rise as they claim, most cities will become unlivable. That's if humanity makes it past this decade considering what happening worldwide.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/202 ... /102732654

Having one grid to service the entire east coast is insanity, poles, wires and sub stations are extremely vulnerable to inclement weather and fire. Back in 2013 we had a massive fire down on the Tasman peninsula, which wiped out many homes. The peninsula was without power for over 12 days and some places over 3 weeks, because all the poles burnt down, even though they have 2-3 power lines going down there. It was bedlam for the majority and took the authorities 3 days before they could get backup generators up and running to service the hospital and other services. Those who were off grid, had no problems with power and they have been discussing setting up a separate grid for the peninsula and putting power cables underground, which would power proof the peninsula.

Localised grids are the only solution that will work in the long run, cities are just bottomless pits of consumption without regard for anything but consumption and waste. If we survive climate change and the growing threat of nuclear war, cities will become redundant as they stand now.

As for industry, we have to move away from the current model and start places heavy power use industry in places where sufficient renewable energy can be provided. I see those places as rural where big solar and wind can be set up, coastal regions where wind wave and tide generation can be set up. We have to change our ways of suffer the consequences and probably have to change how societies operate, so they are compatible with the requirements of the future.

Edited for spelling

[T1 Terry]

In the big cities areas, picture those massive sub stations being replaced by battery banks and the sub stations being the smaller variety under ground that can move the power both ways to shift the renewable energy to the batteries for storage to cover the peak loads. Plenty of waves to harness for energy and with a bit of thought, wave energy used to pump seawater to high up reservoirs as a back up power supply through micro turbines to supplement the wind turbines and wave generators and sea current generators that could be dotted along the coast.
Cities further inland from the coast will have to figure out how they can get by without a grid if it's lost, but they didn't start out on the grid, so they know the basis of how to set up their own micro grids ....

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

As for heavy industry, you may not know this, but Bluescope Steel in Port Kembla actually sell power to the grid at times and very carefully monitor their grid load to avoid the huge power costs if they go over their negotiated current drawn ..... when I was still doing shut down work there back in the early 2000s they shelved a co-regeneration project because the govt wouldn't put enough $$ towards it ..... they had fully costed it and knew they didn't need the financial support for the business model and they would have generated additional profits from the outcome, but it was the whole principle of having to use their own money rather than the tax payers money .... heavy industry can go screw itself if it expects the tax payer to fund their power supply .....

T1 Terry

[supersparky]

I saw a Tesla today, with the number plate
COALPWR I thought he must have been either a bit dim, or a total sh#t stirrer.. He drove it like his other car was a BMW.

[T1 Terry]

I saw a Tesla today, with the number plate
COALPWR I thought he must have been either a bit dim, or a total sh#t stirrer.. He drove it like his other car was a BMW.

I'm guessing the "total sh#t stirrer." As far as driving like his other car was a BMW, do you mean driving in the BMW lane?

T1 Terry

[supersparky]

Yep, changing lane without indicating and driving like a total knob in heavy traffic. I'm sure most of us have seen that type of driver from time to time. First one I've noticed in a Tesla.