Phone app

[Toolman]

There seems to be a lot of fake news about.
I have the app and my phone goes all day, it does not use more power than normal with bluetooth turned on
I have dealt with Amazon a lot over many years and have never had a add from them. I even have their app on my phone

This app is a good use of technology and is about us not you What do you have to hide?
The more of us that have it the sooner we can get back to normal

[Busman]

I repeat my earlier post, but only once this time !

[Cuppa]

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[Toolman]

Good one Cuppa

[native pepper]

Cuppa, use Ubuntu touch on my Ph, there's no app for that system as it's a computer operating system, not an android or apple Ph. My Ph is a linux computer, can attach keyboard and mouse to it, connect, communicate and share with my linux home server and laptop on the road. It's a linux system, light years ahead of android, windows and apple in security and free. But still switch of bluetooth and data when moving around and the Ph itself until I arrive at my destination.

Might sound paranoid, but had enough interaction with the federal government at one time, to realise how lying, deceptive and invasive they really are.

[T1 Terry]

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Good one Cuppa
My whole thing about Big Brother and criminal tracing via the Telco was to point out that they only need one person infected and having the app to locate all those who had been with in a set area that person has passed through for the last how ever long they want to look back. The Telco phone towers continually triangulate to give you the best reception for the location you are at and can determine which way you are travelling by the cell towers that pick up your signal compared to the ones that have a much weaker signal.
Armed with that info, they can also look for any other phones detected in that tower area. It doesn't even need to be the same provider, it knows you are there even if you can't access it because you use a different carrier network. As an example, we are with Optus yet get all 5 bars reception when travelling through smaller towns that Optus doesn't actually have coverage, the phone is seeing the Telstra tower meaning the Telstra tower also can see the phone, we just can't access the services from that tower.
Yes, it would be quicker for the contact tracing via information transfer phone to phone, but the govt or anyone who can access the tower records can trace any other phone that has been in the same area as the registered app user has been.

as far as speeding up the lifting of the lock down, wishful thinking I'm afraid, the only things that will speed up the whole process is either a proven vaccine, verification that you can't catch the virus twice and get a pass card, or extensive testing verifies the spread has stopped. The app might indicate a select group to be tested over the next 14 days they must remain isolated so they can see if they develop the virus in a sufficient amount to show up on the test.
All good until you factor in those who are Asymptomatic, they will test positive yet show no symptoms, so what's the story when they tell us they only need to check back on close contacts for the 24hr or 48hr period before they showed symptoms ...... but they don't actually show any symptoms so does that mean they are not going to infect anyone even though the test says they have the virus? The Richard Wilkins saga comes to mind https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... ID-19.html

T1 Terry

[Cuppa]

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Good one Cuppa
My whole thing about Big Brother and criminal tracing via the Telco was to point out that they only need one person infected and having the app to locate all those who had been with in a set area that person has passed through for the last how ever long they want to look back. The Telco phone towers continually triangulate to give you the best reception for the location you are at and can determine which way you are travelling by the cell towers that pick up your signal compared to the ones that have a much weaker signal.
Armed with that info, they can also look for any other phones detected in that tower area. It doesn't even need to be the same provider, it knows you are there even if you can't access it because you use a different carrier network. As an example, we are with Optus yet get all 5 bars reception when travelling through smaller towns that Optus doesn't actually have coverage, the phone is seeing the Telstra tower meaning the Telstra tower also can see the phone, we just can't access the services from that tower.
Yes, it would be quicker for the contact tracing via information transfer phone to phone, but the govt or anyone who can access the tower records can trace any other phone that has been in the same area as the registered app user has been.

as far as speeding up the lifting of the lock down, wishful thinking I'm afraid, the only things that will speed up the whole process is either a proven vaccine, verification that you can't catch the virus twice and get a pass card, or extensive testing verifies the spread has stopped. The app might indicate a select group to be tested over the next 14 days they must remain isolated so they can see if they develop the virus in a sufficient amount to show up on the test.
All good until you factor in those who are Asymptomatic, they will test positive yet show no symptoms, so what's the story when they tell us they only need to check back on close contacts for the 24hr or 48hr period before they showed symptoms ...... but they don't actually show any symptoms so does that mean they are not going to infect anyone even though the test says they have the virus? The Richard Wilkins saga comes to mind https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... ID-19.html

T1 Terry

They, the government or their shady departments may well be able to do as you suggest Terry, specifically for wanted individuals etc, but really can you imagine them trying to utilise that sort of technology on a widescale basis. I cant. It is not an argument against using the app, in fact quite the opposite. The app wont do what the signal triangulation can do, & anyone who seriously doesn't want to be found wont be using a mobile phone, let alone the app.

I believe you are wrong about the speeding up of the lifting of the lockdown. The app if taken up in sufficient numbers will very much speed up the contact tracing. No-one is suggesting it will find every contact/potential infection but it will make what up to now has been done manually heaps faster, & speed is of the essence in regard to optimal control of the spread. It may be that we'll never eradicate the virus, but at some point a decision will be made about what recorded level of infection in the community will be manageable & acceptable. Increasing the speed of contact tracing is about improving the 'manageable' bit to get us to the 'acceptable' bit when restrictions are lifted. It will assist with faster responses to inevitable outbreaks when restrictions start being lifted. The hope is not that outbreaks wont occur, but that sufficient info can be obtained in as short a timeframe as possible to enable enough control to keep the outbreaks confined.

Dunno about Richard Wilkins, the link wouldn't let me read the article whilst my ad blocker was working, & I certainly would have far less trust of the Daily Mail than I would of the Aussie Health department!

The more I read of objections to the app, the more I believe I am seeing underlying beliefs that the app is somehow intended to control people. I simply don't buy that at all. It's essentially a crowd sourced aid for our health workers & as a result, the more folk who participate the more thorough (& thus more effective) the outcome. IMO believing it is intended to control is much like suggesting Wikicamps might do the same. The app is to help us help ourselves.

That said it is obvious that there those among us who will continue to live their lives in a guarded manner, sometimes for good reason, perhaps often with good reason. I simply think that on balance - having considered the pros & cons of this situation that this is one particular occasion where the benefits can easily outweigh any disadvantages & that the reality of the disadvantages are somewhere between negligible & imagined. We all have the choice as to whether we participate & for the reasons I've stated I'd encourage as many as possible to join in, but if folk don't want to that is their prerogative, & I still expect that any benefit the app brings to be for the benefit of all.

Cuppa, use Ubuntu touch on my Ph, there's no app for that system as it's a computer operating system, not an android or apple Ph. My Ph is a linux computer, can attach keyboard and mouse to it, connect, communicate and share with my linux home server and laptop on the road. It's a linux system, light years ahead of android, windows and apple in security and free. But still switch of bluetooth and data when moving around and the Ph itself until I arrive at my destination.

Might sound paranoid, but had enough interaction with the federal government at one time, to realise how lying, deceptive and invasive they really are.

np, clearly your decision is made & you don't have a suitable phone anyhow. I do accept your right to your decision & to live your life in the manner that suits you. But I don't accept that your advice to others on this particular issue comes from a balanced perspective. No sleight against you intended when I say that. Some here who know me personally will know I am someone who speaks it as I see it. You & I have never met, which leaves room for bad feeling if I haven't chosen my words carefully enough, we can agree to disagree & hopefully still see the good in each other.

On this topic - I feel I've probably said enough to make my position & my hopes clear. There is little point to just arguing around in circles, so whilst I'm sure that others may still have mote to say, I think I'll leave it at this unless I feel any further response from me can add something more, not yet said.

[T1 Terry]

I don't think the app was designed to track people as its base design, my issue is the possible reluctance to let that amount of data go once it is collected.
The only way I can see this app could speed up the end to the lock down is if the intension is really to make isolation of those concerned if a second wave occurs. After people have suffered through the first lock down they are going to be very wary of submitting themselves to a second round of it.
As you say, each person must make their own decision as to whether they use the app or not, I don't believe peer pressure should be applied by either side of the argument because that interferes with freedom of choice and makes people dig their heels in as a push back against bullying.

Still wonder why it will take a week or more for the source code to be released, they obviously have it so why not make it public if they have nothing to hide?

T1 Terry

[Busman]

I agree with Cuppa. I just cannot see the gov able to use this after covid with all the scrutiny from all sections, public, media etc. The slightest whisper of that would see them relegated to opposition for several elections, I think they are smart enough to work that out ?

I just cannot see the paranoia about privacy having any value, unless you have something to hide ? I refer to my earlier post where Qld Police wanted to seize a weapon where licence conditions had changed. They resorted to looking in garbage bins to find out where we were ? And we weren't hiding ! They has no idea we were only 250 K's away even though we had Telstra and NBN connections at the new place ?

If you believe that digital tracking will not speed up recovery, I just ask you, how long does paper tracking take ? And how many people ? That is how they are trying to protect us now, slow and cumbersome. And you accept that, I have seen no one objecting to being told they may have been potentially exposed by paper tracking. Yet much faster digital tracking is seen as something to be scared of ?

My own feeling is that those that will not download this app are pretty selfish, expect the rest of us to carry the can, to make sure their own close ones are notified, while they are not prepared to do so citing "privacy concerns". No debate about this, just an entrenched position about how bad our government is. The trouble is that the actions this gov has taken is the envy of the world. But of course that is ignored as it don't suit the entrenched position.

[Swisslulu]

Just to lighten things up a bit.
BTW, we have both downloaded the Covid Safe app. [emoji3]