AS3001 update.

[BernieQ2]

What weight is a heavy vehicle, I can't pick up the yarris

[jon_d]

I don't know why I bother.... you know the weights.

[T1 Terry]

A real can of worms there, someone didn't actually thinbk before they wrote this stuff .......
Solar must be extra low voltage ........ this is defined as DC ripple free under 120vdc, is that open circuit voltage or operating voltage?

Lead acid batteries internally stored must be vented externally with a catch tray that will hold 20% of the electrolyte capacity ...... so how does the battery under the bed get vented?

All l ion batteries must be external, so the computer and phone must stay outside ........

Is there a basic intelligence test for the shiny bums that write this stuff? They should at least understand that lithium ion is not a chemistry but a method used by lithium batteries of all chemistry combinations to move the electrical energy through the electrolyte.

Top correct this "all under one blanket" error, lithium batteries containing cobalt in the chemical make up must be mounted externally as a safety measure. They do realise that lithium titanate oxide cells/batteries are installed inside people to power pace makers and nerve stimulating pain releif equipment ....... so anyone with such a device fitted can not enter a transportable premises ........

There are going to be a lot of red faces when the first court challenge arises after a breach of the standards is issued

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

Ummm....... How do they plan to do this bit:
PV overcurrent protection
• Circulating current within the array
• Overload and short circuit protection of wiring
Every MPPT controller shorts the solar wiring at some time during the operating cycle, some regularly, they do this to determine the short circuit current as part of the overall determination of the max achievable output ......
If you attempt protect against over current, what determines the base line ax current that must not be exceeded? The actual current carrying capacity of the strands in each photo voltaic cell would be less than 1 amp ...... so it can't be the lowest current capacity element within the circuit .....

What they have failed to address is the A. I. R. of the ain fuse in relevance to the battery voltage ...... none of the internal BMS systems used in drop in batteries could pass such a requirement, a FET doesn't really have such a thing, the first over current event simply punches through rather than blocking/quenching an arc in a DC circuit with so much instant short circuit current available ....... the boating insurance people are only now trying to come to grips with this issue, the apparent brain power within the collective that write these AUS/NZS rules doesn't stand a hope of even understanding the problem or there actually is a problem .......

T1 Terry

EDIT: You will have to read in the missing "M"s because Margaret's keyboard has a few keys that seem to work when they feel like it

[supersparky]

Glad you put in the edit Terry. Makes more sense now.
I now one person that claimed to be on the panel that updated that standard. He has zero elec qual's. Now is selling caravans. I suspect there will be updates soon enough, when intelligent people actually read the new AS.

[T1 Terry]

Had the first reports of some questionable operator spreading the word through the houseboat people that all the lithium battery systems not installed outside had to be relocated and showing the new AS&NZ standards requirements and claiming they were the rules now, rather than telling the truth that they were only applicable to new installations and not retrospective. The whole bit about lead acid battery installation and the requirement to hold 20% of the electrolyte volume and positive venting ..... wasn't mentioned, guess who was still installing lead acid batteries
I'm unsure if this is actually part of the (AS/NZS 3001.2:2022) and enforceable and just when it becomes the line in the sand that all systems from this date forward must comply ...... extra low voltage doesn't seem to be in many electrician's area of knowledge, few know there are even sperate standards involved ....

I'm starting to think we might have dodged a bullet after all, this latest lot of nonsense is well and truly beyond crazy. The whole bit:

Installed only for charging batteries;
Only generate extra-low voltage; and
Must have a device which prevents battery(ies) overcharging
Overcurrent protection devices shall be provided at the renewable
energy source

The whole issue of extra low voltage is still undecided, anywhere from 50vdc ripple free to 125vdc with less than a 5% ripple .... if anyone has monitored the voltage and wave pattern on the input side of an MPPT controller knows ripple free is impossible and 5% ripple is a dream figure .... unless there is a load shunt in the system to divert the current to a resistive load to dump the excess current and avoid a voltage spike each time the BMS controller determines the voltage at the battery is at the over voltage charge cut point and how would you charge a 48v system? That requires at least 63vdc on the input side to get above the 5v over load voltage required by an MPPT controller ......

T1 Terry

[jon_d]

The whole issue of extra low voltage is still undecided, anywhere from 50vdc ripple free to 125vdc with less than a 5% ripple .... if anyone has monitored the voltage and wave pattern on the input side of an MPPT controller knows ripple free is impossible and 5% ripple is a dream figure .... unless there is a load shunt in the system to divert the current to a resistive load to dump the excess current and avoid a voltage spike each time the BMS controller determines the voltage at the battery is at the over voltage charge cut point and how would you charge a 48v system? That requires at least 63vdc on the input side to get above the 5v over load voltage required by an MPPT controller ......

It's just peak voltage.

[supersparky]

T1, the way I read it was - the new standard was released in Nov 2022 with a one year period to allow everyone to get up to speed with it. Not retrospective. Not enforceable until -Nov 2023 the way I read it. I still haven't got a complete copy yet.
I think that AS3000 deals with the definition of ELV, LV, HV etc.
Whoever is telling the houseboaters that they are now non- compliant is quite clearly a grub and deserves reporting to the SA licensing authority.

[T1 Terry]

AS&NZS 3000 define ELV as 50vac and 120vdc ripple free, not peak to peak voltage, but trying to find the percentage of ripple before the dc is no longer classed as dc and instead classed as ac seems to one of those things they don't like to put in writing. I've been trying to find ways of filtering the dc ripple to hold under the required 120vdc but once I reached the " Active voltage regulator" stage, the eyes started to role

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

The whole issue of extra low voltage is still undecided, anywhere from 50vdc ripple free to 125vdc with less than a 5% ripple .... if anyone has monitored the voltage and wave pattern on the input side of an MPPT controller knows ripple free is impossible and 5% ripple is a dream figure .... unless there is a load shunt in the system to divert the current to a resistive load to dump the excess current and avoid a voltage spike each time the BMS controller determines the voltage at the battery is at the over voltage charge cut point and how would you charge a 48v system? That requires at least 63vdc on the input side to get above the 5v over load voltage required by an MPPT controller ......

It's just peak voltage.

The 5% ripple @ 120vdc equals roughly 126vdc peak to peak voltage and beyond 5% ripple is then classed as ac so reverts to the 50v limit, but trying to find that actually written down on an official site seems to be beyond googles capacity. If the authority was to get technical, the ripple free could mean any voltage over the 50vac limit ..... If you have ever dealt with people who only shine seats and have zero real world experience, you'll know just how bad it can get ......

T1 Terry