Gas Refills

[T1 Terry]

Yep can buy them off ebay, comes with a small connector to do the tiny bottles for soldering etc as well

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LPG-Filler-G ... xyNo9Ssj5z

You stand the big one upside down, connect the little one and away you go, can only go until the pressure equalises so usually empty to about 1/3 rd I think, dunno I usually get my people to do it !

mucking about with gas bottles and exchanging gas is highly dangerous and should only be left to the experts.

But (ahem) I happen to know a bloke who met a fella who knows a mate whos brother in law swears that- (ahem)
if you join up 2 bottles with fittings and hose from a large green shed
and elevate the fuller bottle above the emptier one then invert it
and open both the valves
then slowly pour hot water over the elevated one
liquid gas shall move from the top one to the bottom one leaving just enough in the top one for a quick weber bbq and nothing more.
Certain kettle water might have to be applied a couple of times but a little rattle and shake will feel the emptyness.

but you didn't hear it on this forum OK

I have heard that if you put the upside down bottle in the sun in a position higher than the bottle that is being filled and pour cold water over the bottle being filled a similar thing happens. I've heard that you can feel the liquid flowing through the hose and if you put the empty 9kg bottle on a set of bathroom scales and record the weight, then have it filled by a refilling station and weigh it again you will know what a full bottle weighs and the difference should be 9kg. Now, if the bottle being filled weighed as much as a full bottle or the weight of that bottle empty plus 9 kgs one might assume the bottle being filled is actually full without the need to crack the bleed off valve and let the gas vapour out. The gas vapour is the dangerous part, it will flow down hill and fill any hollows as well flow into a drain and fill the drain pipes with gas vapour. This gas/air mix can be ignited from miles away as all drainage pipes flow down hill but flame fronts travel up hill. Put that all together and you will realise why it can be so dangerous to decant LPG and why it requires a licence, that is to prove you do understand the dangers to watch out for to keep everyone safe. Having said that, I have seen some of the stupidest practices imaginable, like the decanting bottle and platform beside the open console operators window so they can refill bottles while still working the console and cash register with no thought to the clouds of gas vapour filling the shop....... the decanter bottle sitting on the drain grid while the bloke was filling bottle after bottle.

T1 Terry

[El Gringo]

A friend of mine used to work for BOC and often had to unload ships to fill the huge tanks near the docks.
It had to be constantly monitored for both freezing the pipes - causing huge pressure build up and potential explosions, and for static electricity.
It was the static that was the most dangerous apparently, could cause ignition inside the pipes???

Personally, I will happily pay someone trained to do the job to fill my gas bottles.

Cheers,

[BruceS]

I refilled my gas stove lighter a few days ago! Does that count?


Terry you have been involved in the automotive side so I have a question...
What is the difference between the auto gas & the LPG for a 9kg cylinder?
Not the means of using it but the composition etc of the gas?
Are they interchangeable without changing pressures or jets etc?

[Dot]

What is all the kerfuffle about gas when all you have to do is take Chuck with you but then I guess his upkeep would out weigh the gas advantage !!

[T1 Terry]

I refilled my gas stove lighter a few days ago! Does that count?


Terry you have been involved in the automotive side so I have a question...
What is the difference between the auto gas & the LPG for a 9kg cylinder?
Not the means of using it but the composition etc of the gas?
Are they interchangeable without changing pressures or jets etc?

The gas to fill the 9kg bottle has to certified to 99% purity and is always Propane, Auto gas is anything and every thing and there are no requirements regarding blends. Back in the days of catalytic cracking here in Aust a certain amount of rubbish gas was produced, sometimes used within the plant for heating and sometimes dumped in the LPG tank to get rid of it.
All appliances that use bottled gas are jetted for Propane and require a larger jet than butane as butane burns hotter. The reason propane is the gas used is the vapour or boiling point from a liquid to a gas. Propane is -32*C, butane is 0.5*C, this means any butane in a gas line exposed to temperatures less than 0.5*C will change state from a gas back to a liquid and the volume will reduce by 270 times, so more gas is fed into the line to make up the reduced volume and pressure. When an appliance is turned on the still gaseous Propane will push the liquid Butane along the hose till it reaches the appliance where it heats up and returns to gas... at 270 times the volume, a fire ball.
I guess many here have experienced the butane can cooker performing poorly after a while when the weather is cold, take the can out and it is cold to the touch and a shake shows there is still plenty of liquid left in the can. warm the can up and away the cooker goes again until it chills down and the gas won't boil off the liquid. The butane gas cigarette lighter won't light if it's cold, warm it first in your hands and away it goes, same deal, the liquid will not change to a gas if it's too cold.

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

What is all the kerfuffle about gas when all you have to do is take Chuck with you but then I guess his upkeep would out weigh the gas advantage !!

Dottie, that is basically methane gas with a few other chemicals to give it that delightful aroma. To turn that into a liquid fuel it needs to be frozen down to below -161*C and then it is known as LNG (liquified natural gas) but the other components of Chuckie's natural gas must be removed in the process as the gas condenses down 600 times to become a liquid.... imagine just a drop of Chuckie's special additive being released any where, bio chemical warfare comes to mind

[bagmaker]

i have a little hanging digital fish scale like this, under $10 and handy "as all get out"
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LCD-Digital- ... SwFqJWlxUE
the tare weights are stamped on each bottle so easy to see how much is in it by weight, grab the half emptys, swap fill to 9ish and take the real empty in for a refill. Even with no liquid there is enough gas for a weber to cook a steak (just) which I find amazing. At the big green shed you get swap and go 8.5s, elsewhere (bbq galore is typical) you get a 9kg weighed refill. Its a big difference in volume, a kg of gas = 2.2 litres! There is a place in Vic -north Dandenong- that does refills for $14.95, -worth the detour for a couple. They used to refill for $12.95 and the proprietor is adamant he would return to that price if the wholesale lowered.


APPARENTLY you can actually hear the liquid arriving at the bottom bottle to the point where you can tell that the job is done quite easily. You didnt get that from me though

T1- cooling the bottom bottle would do the same thing for sure. Boyles law at its best.

[Lance]

T1- cooling the bottom bottle would do the same thing for sure. Boyles law at its best.

Confusement here............does ya cools it or boyles it..................

[mottleemob]

The servo just up the road from my work has 9kg refills for $15.99. It is the Metro at Islington
cheers Phil

[T1 Terry]

i have a little hanging digital fish scale like this, under $10 and handy "as all get out"
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LCD-Digital- ... SwFqJWlxUE
the tare weights are stamped on each bottle so easy to see how much is in it by weight, grab the half emptys, swap fill to 9ish and take the real empty in for a refill. Even with no liquid there is enough gas for a weber to cook a steak (just) which I find amazing. At the big green shed you get swap and go 8.5s, elsewhere (bbq galore is typical) you get a 9kg weighed refill. Its a big difference in volume, a kg of gas = 2.2 litres! There is a place in Vic -north Dandenong- that does refills for $14.95, -worth the detour for a couple. They used to refill for $12.95 and the proprietor is adamant he would return to that price if the wholesale lowered.


APPARENTLY you can actually hear the liquid arriving at the bottom bottle to the point where you can tell that the job is done quite easily. You didnt get that from me though

T1- cooling the bottom bottle would do the same thing for sure. Boyles law at its best.

Take the digital scale into a BCF or similar and weigh an empty bottle, then see if that matches the weight stamped on the top ring...... if it does take a photo of that bottle because it would be an extremely rare event. The top ring is stamped before it is welded onto the bottle so the person doing the stamping must do a lot of trips to the future to read the scales and then back to the past to stamp the ring
The whole inspection, pressure testing, weighing and stamping is a joke and not policed by anyone in authority. A few here might remember the brand new gas bottle springing a leak at the welded seam at an outback caravan park and the problem was attributed to a poor weld Now how could that happen when the bottle was pressure tested to twice the pressure relieve valve rating before the inspector put his stamp on the top ring?