Caravan weights and towing

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Lance
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Caravan weights and towing

Post by Lance »

A great initiative by some members of the Victorian Police Force has bought about a series of weigh-ins at several spots with very strong public support.
This one at Leisurefest is an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_bswG52kJ4

Anyone recognise the copper ? :)
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T1 Terry
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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by T1 Terry »

Is that Pathycop from the CF? The ball weight is one of those confusing issues that needs to be sorted. A 5er or semi doesn't have the pin weight measured, that is determined by the rear axle weights, so why can't the axle weights be used to determine compliance or non compliance? It makes a WDH a complete nonsense if the weight it distributes to the tow vehicle front axle isn't taken into account and makes a drive through weight check similar to the truck method used at present impossible.
That then brings up the whole idea of swinging a caravan off a towball into question, why isn't a dolly type set up required so the weight at the drawbar is not transferred to the towbar, wasn't there something like that on that movie "The long, long trailer"? The problem then would be educating the driver on how to tow a dog trailer because that is what it would become.

I think the real problem is the regulations didn't keep up with the changing face of caravanning, they are no longer the light weight plywood boxes of old that these regulations were written for, can you imagine trying to drag one of these 3.5 tonne units of today behind the EH Holden or XP Falcon?

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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by native pepper »

Have wondered for many years as to why there isn't dog trailer caravans, instead of pig trailers. The name itself, "pig trailer", represents what they are like to tow, whilst a dog trailer, just follows on behind with rarely a problem.

A dog type trailer is so easy to tow, they would reduce the number of rollovers and crashes. They are also much easier to load as the distribution is not as paramount as a pig, know full well what a fuel pig trailer is like hanging on behind. Even though they are baffled, once you remove some fuel, they can become a hassle.
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Lance
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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by Lance »

T1 Terry wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:36 pm Is that Pathycop from the CF?
Yep, he's passionate about this topic and puts his hand up to help out wherever possible. ;)

I don't have much to do with CF any more, but perhaps someone else could shoot that link of to them and give Graeme our congratulations. 8-)
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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by T1 Terry »

After dragging a few dog trailers down the hill from Dorrigo I can assure you they are not perfect either as the tail tends to wag the dog unless almost all the braking is done by the dog trailer, a tough ask behind a rather heavy 8 wheeler. The whole hitch method is far better suited to towing the load than a tow ball hanging on the end of a lump of steel and generally the ring feeder is a lot closer to the rear axle than the tow ball on the average car set up so maybe that has a lot to do with it as well.
With the introduction of heavier and heavier caravans there definitely needs to be a whole new approach, the air bag hitch is a move in the right direction I think but maybe a move towards shifting the axle assembly toward the rear of the van rather than centre and a dual jockey wheel assembly under the current hitch point so the tow vehicle steers the van rather than attempting to drag it, this way the van is less likely to disrupt the weight distribution between the tow vehicle and the van resulting in the van taking control and pushing/pulling the rear of the tow vehicle sideways

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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by T1 Terry »

Lance wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:44 pm
T1 Terry wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:36 pm Is that Pathycop from the CF?
Yep, he's passionate about this topic and puts his hand up to help out wherever possible. ;)

I don't have much to do with CF any more, but perhaps someone else could shoot that link of to them and give Graeme our congratulations. 8-)
Well I don't think they'd let me do the honour some how Lance :lol: I believe a few think he has done the wrong thing by starting the information gathering exercise as it will result in fuel for the caravan weighing requirement side of the argument.
Personally, I think it was the softer and better approach, there has never been anything stopping a joint police/RMS (or what ever acronym your state uses) blitz to collect the data and probably resulting in a number of vehicles being stranded at the check point until the required weights were met. I think there would be quite a few motorhome owners who would suddenly discover they were actually unlicensed to drive their rig due to tyre upgrades or find the thing could never be legal on a car licence as the base weight is over 4.5 tonne once there was water in the tanks and gas bottles on board, then add 32kg for every 100Ah of AGM battery and 16kg for every 100w of solar if you include mounting brackets, cabling etc.... it soon adds up and often the manufacturers weight figure on the compliance plate is a work of fiction to begin with...... it will be a real can of worms once it starts and there are already weigh stations with signs saying vehicles over 4.5 tonne must enter if directed. No point in trying to fight it, the only way you could win is to submit to the weight check and prove them wrong, then you can bet there would be a rather close inspection of the vehicle if you tried to make a big thing of it.

T1 Terry
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Vik351
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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by Vik351 »

:o :shock:

"" often the manufacturers weight figure on the compliance plate is a work of fiction to begin with...... it will be a real can of worms once it starts and there are already weigh stations with signs saying vehicles over 4.5 tonne must enter if directed. No point in trying to fight it, the only way you could win is to submit to the weight check and prove them wrong, then you can bet there would be a rather close inspection of the vehicle if you tried to make a big thing of it.

T1 Terry ""

Your not suggesting "Operation Revenue" are you...??? :lol:

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Mrbolly
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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by Mrbolly »

I have a friend who is a caravanners and has owned vans for several years. Unfortunately, he rolled his van and wrote it off towards the end of last year and was fortunate that his Toyota Cruiser stayed on its wheels. When we discussed the accident, he felt that complacency may have been a contributing factor, complacency in that he "may" not have paid as much attention as he should have to trimming the weight within the van and the car. While the van felt largely stable immediately before the accident, his view was the weight distribution was marginal and the actual loss of control was due to a combination of that and a cross wind that set the tail wagging.

One of the first things he purchased prior to taking delivery of his new van was a tow ball weight scale so he can do the calculations before each trip.

He has just taken delivery of a new Van which also has air suspension. The briefing for management of the suspension was woefully basic and simply pointed out how to increase or decrease the pressure in the air bags. Leaving Melbourne with the van on day one was an exercise in fear as the pressure in the air bags was too low resulting in the van wallowing and bouncing all over the road. Three stops for incremental pressure increases were need before the suspension found a sweet spot and the van behaved itself. The point here is, my mate is mechanic by trade and was able to problem solve to make the van behave, how many caravanners have that knowledge.

It seems to me that the development of vans with things like air suspension should be a great step forward, but the systems are not automatic levelling and rely on the owner operator to have a keen understanding of the system and be able to manually operate it. The problem, which then only exacerbates all the other variable in towing issues is that training and knowledge is not provided (beyond basic pre-delivery familiarisations) by manufacturer's and resellers. Even if it was, there is nothing to stop anyone else operating the whole combination on the highway.
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Re: Caravan weights and towing

Post by T1 Terry »

vik351 wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:39 am :o :shock:

"" often the manufacturers weight figure on the compliance plate is a work of fiction to begin with...... it will be a real can of worms once it starts and there are already weigh stations with signs saying vehicles over 4.5 tonne must enter if directed. No point in trying to fight it, the only way you could win is to submit to the weight check and prove them wrong, then you can bet there would be a rather close inspection of the vehicle if you tried to make a big thing of it.

T1 Terry ""

Your not suggesting "Operation Revenue" are you...??? :lol:

vik... :mrgreen: NA... :roll:
I have no doubt the SA govt applies pressure where ever possible to raise revenue, but I don't think the people on the ground actually doing the work are driven by the fine $$ they collect. It think it is more a desire to have drivers meet their responsibilities and giving them a mouthful when they are doing a job they think is honourable isn't going to alter their opinion in a positive way. Follow the directions, pass the test, thank the officer for doing his job and the time lost at least gives peace of mind. If the vehicle didn't pass the test, rather than get dirty about it, learn from it, still offer the same courteous manner to the officer only doing his job and just maybe you will get off with a warning, turn dirty and you can bet there is more serious offence the officer has kept up the sleeve just in case.
Let's face it, if the vehicle is potentially unstable due to the way it is loaded or to extent of the load it is carrying, what makes it ok for that driver but not ok for the one coming the other way that looses control and cleans you up?
After seeing the destruction caused by a run away truck at the foot of Mt Ousley after it ploughed through a MacDonalds restaurant the whole perception of over loading, lack of driver skill and brainless road design, my whole attitude to road use changed. The people in that Maccas restaurant didn't stop to think about the fact a run away truck had no where else to go but through the front wall after it launched over the traffic island in the middle of the round about. Those that allowed the place to be built there knew full well that there was a safety ramp there before the land was cleared. The driver of the truck knew he wasn't licenced to drive a truck that size, didn't know enough to realise it was not safely loaded of over loaded and did not know the safe procedures for operating that size truck down such a steep hill. The fact he was so far out of his comfort zone and knew he was in trouble already chose not use the safety ramp but rather continue on straight ahead, not knowing there was another steep hill still to come and no where to go.
There is not a lot of difference between this scenario and the poorly loaded caravan or motorhome loosing control and ploughing into traffic coming the other way or a similar situation where unsuspecting people had no way to escape.

T1 Terry
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