Chris, have these on all my lifepo4 systems, they work really well and keep your cells nicely balanced. They transfer energy from one cell to another to balance them, unlike other methods which drain a cell so others can catch up. Along with my lifepo4 chargers, my systems never need looking at and am very happy with how they function.
Ten years this month since getting my first lifepo4 pack and 9 years for my house system, about 4 years with the equaliser on the house and a couple on the other systems and really worthwhile.
240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
Thanks for the reassurance Native Pepper. I will get it installed today. That makes pretty cost effective automatic cell balancing and the associated peace of mind. "Brilliant"
Cheers
Chris
Cheers
Chris
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
Here's a direct link without tracking:
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32545185506.html
At a glance it appears that there's risk of this device continuing to try equalising, to the point that the cell terminal voltage is way too low?

Cheers,
Steve
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32545185506.html
At a glance it appears that there's risk of this device continuing to try equalising, to the point that the cell terminal voltage is way too low?

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
These are the ones I trialled on a rather out of balance battery pack that had been in service for roughly 3 1/2yrs. After 6 weeks or so the unit arrived at the workshop from Sydney where I'd fitted it and the battery was further out of balance at the top of charge than when I had fitted it. The problem it had spent 6 weeks trying to sort was caused by dirty terminal connections, every time the system was under load a set of cells would show a lower voltage than the others and the unit would try to balance it resulting in that cell being way in front of the other 3 cell groups when the 100% charged range was getting close. Even though the claim is it can shift 10 amps, the voltage difference would need to be huge to shift that sort of current, the 150mV acceptable difference between the highest and lowest cell causes a few milli amps to shift from one cell to the other. They can not shift the 20/30/40 amps or more the solar is pumping in at the top end of the charging cycle and that is when the true out of balance is seen. Basically, if the system is already in balance it will stay that way.... with or without the unit attachedBarboots wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:36 pm Here's a direct link without tracking:
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32545185506.html
At a glance it appears that there's risk of this device continuing to try equalising, to the point that the cell terminal voltage is way too low?
Cheers,
Steve

I believe Bruce is trialling one for me on a 24v pack to see if it can sort the out of balance that occurs between cells 7&* compared to the others, will take a mth or more to see any results I'm expecting
T1 Terry
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
Yes I am... or was?
I installed it the day you left for WA Terry & have been meaning to tell you how it's going.
When I put it on both 'sides' of my 48V pack were showing almost identical voltages.
I installed it on the 'top side'. (25 to 48v)
I'd almost forgotten about it & it is still connected.
Both sides look almost exactly as they did before I started!
Like you said .... can't shift enough in my case.
I did use the clamp meter a few times & there definitely was a movement in the right direction but it was lucky the clamp meter had the readout to 3 decimal places or I wouldn't have known!!
I wonder if I try it on 4 cells per wire?
1-4, 5-8, 9-12 & 13-16
Not sure it's going to do much ....
I installed it the day you left for WA Terry & have been meaning to tell you how it's going.
When I put it on both 'sides' of my 48V pack were showing almost identical voltages.
I installed it on the 'top side'. (25 to 48v)
I'd almost forgotten about it & it is still connected.
Both sides look almost exactly as they did before I started!
Like you said .... can't shift enough in my case.
I did use the clamp meter a few times & there definitely was a movement in the right direction but it was lucky the clamp meter had the readout to 3 decimal places or I wouldn't have known!!
I wonder if I try it on 4 cells per wire?
1-4, 5-8, 9-12 & 13-16
Not sure it's going to do much ....
*******************
BruceS
Mannum, SA
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BruceS
Mannum, SA
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
I have 2 of those equalizer's on a 24 volt pack and I agree with NP the longer they are there the better they seem to work. Just had a look and my pack is at 47% and within 4 ml volt which it would never do before 

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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
My battery consists of 8x 300AH cells configured into 4 pairs. These cells were three years old when I purchased them and had comprised half of an "off grid" house battery bank. I should have purchased all 16 cells at the time as they were a bargain at $NZ312 per cell.
When performing a top end balance I have one pair (same pair each time) that can be 0.25v lower than the other three pairs. I correct this by applying a resistance over the three lower pairs until the low set catch up or get slightly higher. This is necessary every two - three months. I am using three automotive coil ballast resistors hooked up with alligator clips to easily apply the load to individual cells. I put this issue down to the poor maintenance that these cells were subjected to in their previous installation. They are still in daily use and seldom get taken below 75% SOC = 450 AH remaining.
My plan is to get the bank perfectly balanced and then install the new magic black box in the hope that it will gently massage the charging process and keep on top of the gradual minuscule drop off of the offending pair of cells. The daily current adjustment would barely be measurable. I certainly would not expect it to magically balance up a set of cells that were significantly out of balance.
Cheers
Chris
When performing a top end balance I have one pair (same pair each time) that can be 0.25v lower than the other three pairs. I correct this by applying a resistance over the three lower pairs until the low set catch up or get slightly higher. This is necessary every two - three months. I am using three automotive coil ballast resistors hooked up with alligator clips to easily apply the load to individual cells. I put this issue down to the poor maintenance that these cells were subjected to in their previous installation. They are still in daily use and seldom get taken below 75% SOC = 450 AH remaining.
My plan is to get the bank perfectly balanced and then install the new magic black box in the hope that it will gently massage the charging process and keep on top of the gradual minuscule drop off of the offending pair of cells. The daily current adjustment would barely be measurable. I certainly would not expect it to magically balance up a set of cells that were significantly out of balance.
Cheers
Chris
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
I use the GNE on both my 12 and 24 v packs, never seen them so close. The 12 was never much of a problem but the 24 had me tearing my hair on many occasions, now it just quietly sits at around 10-20 mv difference.
Dunno how it works, there is a high frequency "whistle" that comes from it, more out of balance, higher the sound. This is the only one I would use.
Dunno how it works, there is a high frequency "whistle" that comes from it, more out of balance, higher the sound. This is the only one I would use.
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
Most will probably disagree with me here and as I have no real technical knowledge, then my explanation may not sound right.
It was pointed out to me many years ago and I watched the progress of some tests, which showed no matter what you use to balance cells if they are 100ah+ you will have problems. Large capacity cells just don't balance well, cells around 50ah and lower, balance very well as the internal resistance is very low in them.
Having used bms and relays for controls in the past, these equalisers do the job for my small capacity cells. Do know someone with 100ah 12v cells (400ah) and they use one of these with good effect and as toolman says, the longer they stay on the better them seem to work. This bloke was using an expensive adjustable controller and having lots of trouble balancing, when he got lifepo4 chargers and equalisers, his problems disappeared after a few weeks of use. Cells tend to go out of balance when float or other lead acid charging parameters are used, no matter what you do, they hate being treated like lead acid.
With large capacity cells, you may be trying to move large amps out of each cell or line, which creates problems. With small capacity cells, you never move large amps, but much smaller transfers which a 10amp equaliser handles very well. Cell packs tend to only get out of balance when they are reaching capacity, so it's logical smaller cells would be easier to balance with less internal resistance and heating. Large capacity cells would have to move more and they tend to get warm anyway, compared to smaller capacities.
I only check my cells every few months now, just to see how they are going and everyone is the same no matter what the SOC is. Before the equalisers, my house pack was always struggling to get into balance when it reached 13.7v and the active balancers just didn't hack it at all. Had to use a cell bleeder on them some times, now no worries and the equalisers makes no difference to the SOC, my portable pack can sit for weeks on just the equaliser and SOC doesn't change.
You can expect some time down the track someone will come up with a much better control system for lifepo4, or even better cells. Until then, will stick with dedicated lifepo4 controllers, equalisers and small capacity cells. Which so far seem the best approach for me.
It was pointed out to me many years ago and I watched the progress of some tests, which showed no matter what you use to balance cells if they are 100ah+ you will have problems. Large capacity cells just don't balance well, cells around 50ah and lower, balance very well as the internal resistance is very low in them.
Having used bms and relays for controls in the past, these equalisers do the job for my small capacity cells. Do know someone with 100ah 12v cells (400ah) and they use one of these with good effect and as toolman says, the longer they stay on the better them seem to work. This bloke was using an expensive adjustable controller and having lots of trouble balancing, when he got lifepo4 chargers and equalisers, his problems disappeared after a few weeks of use. Cells tend to go out of balance when float or other lead acid charging parameters are used, no matter what you do, they hate being treated like lead acid.
With large capacity cells, you may be trying to move large amps out of each cell or line, which creates problems. With small capacity cells, you never move large amps, but much smaller transfers which a 10amp equaliser handles very well. Cell packs tend to only get out of balance when they are reaching capacity, so it's logical smaller cells would be easier to balance with less internal resistance and heating. Large capacity cells would have to move more and they tend to get warm anyway, compared to smaller capacities.
I only check my cells every few months now, just to see how they are going and everyone is the same no matter what the SOC is. Before the equalisers, my house pack was always struggling to get into balance when it reached 13.7v and the active balancers just didn't hack it at all. Had to use a cell bleeder on them some times, now no worries and the equalisers makes no difference to the SOC, my portable pack can sit for weeks on just the equaliser and SOC doesn't change.
You can expect some time down the track someone will come up with a much better control system for lifepo4, or even better cells. Until then, will stick with dedicated lifepo4 controllers, equalisers and small capacity cells. Which so far seem the best approach for me.
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Re: 240v Battery Charger for Lithium Upgrade
Ok I will be the first to disagree.
I agree active balancing is the way to go for us, it solved my 24 v 800 ah pack problems. 64 x 100 Ah cells at 24 V = 800 Ah
I disagree about dedicated LiFePo4 chargers, I recently had a lot of correspondence with the Winston factory regarding an import and they do not agree that you need dedicated chargers, they did say that was the thinking early on, but it has been proven to not be so.
All equalisers of any sort will use some energy, but it generally is very little, hard to notice in a pack of any size.
William
I agree active balancing is the way to go for us, it solved my 24 v 800 ah pack problems. 64 x 100 Ah cells at 24 V = 800 Ah
I disagree about dedicated LiFePo4 chargers, I recently had a lot of correspondence with the Winston factory regarding an import and they do not agree that you need dedicated chargers, they did say that was the thinking early on, but it has been proven to not be so.
All equalisers of any sort will use some energy, but it generally is very little, hard to notice in a pack of any size.
William
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